Offensiveley, we're very poor. Speed of the PTB is generally slow, and most of our players seem to struggle to pass the ball quickly and accurately. In the last 2 games we've struggled to make as many yards as the opposition with ball in hand.

Defensively, we were doing well early in the season but since the Huddersfield game we've gone backwards. I think it's down to fatigue from the props and 2nd rowers who are playing far too many minutes - which other team expects 2 props to do 65+ minutes each and their 2nd rowers to play the full match? It just looks too easy to make metres against us, putting us under unnecessary pressure.

We just look like the same team who were coached by sharp and I don't see it improving

Got to agree about PTB, why are we so slow?we'll never get a penalty for 'lying on' we seem to be happy to get up slowly, and when we're near oppositions line i'm not as confident about us scoring, yet when the opposition are nr our line i always feel they'll score.

It's hard to disagree with any of that really.

Hard to disagree with any of that TBH.

Can you somehow post it to our coaching staff,?

I think we have made a great start to the season so don't want to be to critical, but do agree that things have slipped in the last two games.

What surprises me is that people are shocked that we look like the same team that was coached by Sharp, what people have to remember is Sharp was probably calling the shots but Agar will have done a lot of the day to day coaching. So no wonder much hasn't changed.

IMO the only short term solution is probably for agar to allow more input from J Sharp.

By the way I am not calling for Agar to go, but he needs to look to a more expansive game we are way too predictable.

Did I just see "Jon Sharp" and "expansive game" in the same sentence.

There is no surprse that Hudderfield are playing good rugby, they now have a cracking coach.

I was not saying J Sharp would play an expansive game and yes Hudds are now playing great rugby under Brown.

All I am saying is to try and change things quickly input other than that of Agar has to come from somewhere. In some ways that is probably Hull's problem both Agar and Sharp are to similar in coaching style.

I do remember Huddersfield under Sharp almost putting us out of the playoffs in 2007 by moving the ball through numerous hands each tackle, it was probably that big tackle by Carvell that changed the game.

We have the ability to play decent stuff but it never seems to be a priority with us. We seem to prefer to just try and grind a win out. After a positive start to the season we actually played some good stuff and scored some good inventive trys. We just seem to have gone away from that and tried to keep it tight which isn't working now as the pack are tired. I do think the conditions played a part on Saturday night but we should still have been better.

I thought on Saturday our biggest problem was Berrigan and then Houghton, both were shocking and that is where Quins won the game. We had no direction, speed or decent service from dummy half and the Quins did through Randall. Also we looked too slow in the forwards whereas Quins had far mroe mobility.

Got to agree. Berrigans passing was really poor in particular.

I was poor and slow and he never got out of dummy half to engage their forwards, very disappointing display.

Following on from the KCFM phone in a couple of weeks back..........what are all these moves Thorman and Horne have come up with that agar and sharp can't keep up with???

Can we see them anytime soon??

Scoot
Scoot
Drive
Drive
Kick

Our gameplan from our own try line to 30 metres from the oppositions.

Scoot
Drive
Drive
Wedge play/Give it to Manu and hope he can do something
Grubber

Our gameplan in the redzone.

Indeed. At the same time i dont think its massively expansive rugby we want, its just a bit of variation away from the 4 or 5 drives and a kick.

Personally I've got to the point where I don't really care if we playing boring or exciting rugby, as long as its done well. If we play boring rugby, and do it fantastically and win a trophy then I will be thrilled. Point is, we aren't playing boring rugby very well at the moment

Exactly. I don't personally think it's too much to ask for either the players or coaching staff to recognise when something isn't working and try something different. How many other sides play pretty much the same tactics regardless of the opposition? Unless you're good enough to play your own game and let the opposition worry about you (which we aren't) you should be looking to exploit weaknesses in the opposition's team and varying tactics to suit. I see few examples of us doing this.

Thought I was on our site when I saw the title of the thread

I remember when a certain young Austrlian coach took us over. He spent the initial few games sorting our defence out; he then worked on our go-forward through the pack; all the time, the attacking plays started to appear and be developed; then the ball started moving around. It took months but he turned a group of pretty average (there are always exceptions) underperformers into a winning team. I think the 2009 team has some quality players but our defence is that of a 5th or 6th spot team. So I think we need to sort defence out first (as with Brian Smith). Our pack is going pretty well and will only get better with the drier conditions - I think we're a mobile pack that will play better on harder grounds - and the half-back pairing needs a bit more time to work better with the backs. I am still very optimisitic. Is it the play-offs next week?

And our attack has been 8th and 12th in the last 2 seasons, so which is the more pressing concern? Even in our GF season it was only the 5th best.

Defence. I said that at the start. Weren't you paying attention?

Yes, I was just questioning your reasoning and conclusion.



The last 2 coaches have concentrated heavily on defence and we've gone backwards. The defence is pretty good now IMO, it's the attack that needs work. I think a point that people seem to forget is that if we started to put more points on the board we'd have the added by-product of more possession. That in itself tends to bring the points against statistic down still further.

For example, if the extra sets we kept the ball meant that we saved only a try and a goal every other game, we would have had a defence bested only by Saints and Leeds in the last 2 seasons.

Yes, sorry. What I meant was that we have been without a half-back pairing for two years. That co-incides with out poor point scoring record imo. But I genuinely believe that a few more weeks will see the understanding develop between the two of them. Then the rest of the backs will know what to expect. Add to that the harder grounds with our mobile pack and I think we'll be a force to reckon with. Oh, and we might need to pass to the wingers as well.

all previous posts can be summed up based on last outing as
CLUELESS AND BORING

A scrum-half