Cas without Gale are rudderless. Can see them missing out on the top 5.

I don't agree. In terms of dominance they are probably more dominant than the 05/06 team but in terms of class much less so. Thee biggest difference is in 05/06 there was FC, Bulls, Rhinos, Warriors to compete with. This year Wire are the closest and they are well behind.

So much quicker in everything they do compared to us, We don't even look like we're playing the same game. they're well drilled, fit, fast, strong and enthusiastic. Everything we're not TBH. Why don't our forwards run like theirs? Why doesn't our defensive line move up like theirs? Why is their first defensive contact so much better than ours? Why is their passing so much slicker and more accurate than ours? Why do they hunt in 3's and 4's in defense when we hunt in 1's and 2's?

For me it's all down to coaching. holbrook is a very good coach who has transformed that group of players from average to way above average and has everyone in the team playing well week in, week out.

If we get to wembley I can see us being completely embarrassed by them, possibly taking rovers record away from them.

You also have to question why weaker squads than ours seem to be able to handle saints much better than we do. As soon as we play a team who play the game with real tempo we just fall to pieces

I know. Talk is cheap and they just just shut the feck up in the week talking absolute shoite about what they're going to do in the match

It's not all doom and gloom. We're still well placed and fighting in both competitions.You've gotta be in it to win it, and we're still in it.

Saints were far too hot for us tonight, but the next game is a different day.

we lack aggression in the pack.saints wouldn't have been so keen on fancy dan rugby ,if we had clouted a few early on.you have to dominate a team in the forewards to gain the upper hand in big games.

completely agree about the front row but wouldn't be at all surprised to see the current 4 props all here next year. Need 2 big, aggressive props for me. 1 who provides impact and 1 who plays long minutes. Another 2nd row and a loose man needed also. Too much salary cap tied up in outside backs for me which will leave us a forward short

What the feck is up with Taylor this year? Shadow of the player he has been in the last 2 seasons

Certainly lower leg. LEt's hope it isn't his knee again

Totally agree with all of that.

It seems our recruitment strategy for 2020 has been derailed by Fonua becoming available and sentiment (and the desire to be popular with the fans) leading us to sign him.

Whilst I admire him greatly be can't play prop and there is a cavernous hole at that position.

As it stands I can see us having the best backline in 2020 super League but losing game after game due to them never seeing the ball (apart from early tackles running the ball out in our quarter).

unless hull improve their home form,we wont make top 5 and wont deserve to..to be honest those people who keep buying a season pass like me are not getting value for money.

It's because he's doing 4 blokes work. I dare say anyone would be jaded on those circumstances.

I noticed tonight we were 0 -18 down when ellis came on,we never let a try in rest of the half,ellis went off and second half we collapsed again.

Fabulous St Helens team performance, they destroyed us with consummate ease, as good a team from a club side in living memory, outstanding disciplined, aware, fantastic coaching achievement, well done all the Hull fans, the majority stayed while we were schooled, but we stuck at it, it happens in sport, I thought we had a good chance tonight, but sometimes reality hits home, this is the level all teams should aspire to emulate. Outstanding

What’s the main factor behind Saints ?

Well it used to be Pilkingtons glass.

Before your time perhaps.

We wont have the best back line when we keep using Shaul at full back.

No ROBY again...lol...best of luck for the rest of the season!

you should have gone to Mersey side radio,that’s where I found it after missing the firstb20minutes.

That is where I ended up, which is ironic given I live west of the pennines.

Sounded like we where rubbish, I thought we had a shot, I think we've settled on third, quietly out of the CC and go again next season with Warmington on Sea as the forwards.

how mamy teams have finished top half of SL with so many crushing defeats?

not a badge we wear with pride

Couldn't get over to Hull to watch the game, was expecting a close game too be honest. What happened to Connor did he play all the game just noticed his stats were 6 tackles and 1 carry for 5 metres thought it would have a good match up with Percival.

It also sounded as though the ref Kendal was below par as usual with a quite a few in our favour. Hull seem to be a Jeckyll and Hyde team Radford needs to get a grip sooner than later.

holbrook. He's transformed them

Our main problem is out pack and FB, I like Shaul, but he hasn't improved his link play enough, I'd look to play Connor there next season, if Shaul isn't happy he either needs to improve or look to leave, sounds harsh, but I honestly think it would improve our attack.

Which of our pack would get in Saints team, maybe only Taylor, but even thats doubtful on current form.

Think Radford sees this and with hopefully 4 new forwards, full off season for Bowden and Savelio, Griffin in the forwards. Another year for Lane and Masi hopefully this will improve our pack.

I said on the virtual terrace before the season started that the new rule changes play right into our hands. Holbrook has built the fittest most athletic pack in SL and no other team are fit enough to match our intensity. Warrington tried last week but couldn’t. We can keep it going for 80 minutes as we have no old school type impact props. We don’t need them. The game has changed but other teams haven’t adapted yet

Why is it though Dave, playing against a dominant pack we still took them on up the middle with predominantly 1 out rugby?
The only real time we threw the ball around we scored.
Now is that coaching and game plan or players mindset?
Whichever unfortunately it's been an all too common thread through Radford's tenure.
Holbrook was pitch side 2nd half giving instructions directly to Wellens and players alike, geeing them up even when they'd just waltzed through our defence and scored.