I'm not sure what your point is about the volume of players. As I've already said, I know you can't drop all who deserve it and I'm not advocating that we do. My point is that we've dropped NONE of them. Our players are complacent IMO.

And regarding your next post, I'm not sure anybody is blaming solely the coach. Some are questioning him along with the players now though, which is perfectly justifiable.

Just one point; the coach who is not to blame another still keeping faith with 'average players'. It's not all down to him, but I'm not seeing how he can be coming off scot-free in all of this. Our deficiencies are too numerous to be entirely down to the lack of quality in a few key positions.

Our lack a scrum half is clearly a huge problem, but I think believing that getting a new one will cure all our woes is delusional. There's a hell of a lot of improvement we should be able to make without even changing our personnel, so it has to be questioned why we haven't.

Numerous deficiencies no doubt but a pareto analysis of them would reveal that the single most pressing weakness in our squad is a top quality general to run the team on the field once they have left the dressing room. Our nearest player to that specification is Holdsworth and when he doesn't play then other deficiencies become more apparent. As I said earlier we won the Challenge Cup with the current Batley coach at the helm but also two or three top quality organising players to enact the plan on the field.

As I've said, I don't want them all dropping, but even just 1 or 2 could at least show the team that they have to play for their place, so then even the ones who survive might up their game so that they aren't next.

My post was more aimed at those criticising Horney than as criticism of Horne himself.

Mrs B just listed 6 problems we have, 4 of them will not be magically solved by signing a scrum half. I would also add our frankly abysmal PTB speed, which I also think is our single biggest problem rather than the halfback situation. We should be able to remedy the PTB, dummy runners, and support players without having to have somebody on the pitch reminding professional players to do these relatively basic things.

I know. Just pointing out that Horne gets bagged on here as a default scapegoat when IMO he's delivered more adequately as the back-up half that he is than others have in their respective roles.

Well even though it was Mrs B who listed them I still believe that many of our problems would be solved by the addition of a quality scrum half. Who knows more accurate distribution and a vocal presence from such a player might help speed our play up - ptb included.

Don't disagree at all. However the harsh reality is that we have no scrum half and Richard Horne is our go-to player for the foreseeable. In a "control the controllables" arena, therefore, we need to compensate by:
Supporting the ball carrier at every opportunity
Providing dummy runners at every opportunity
Getting Houghton, Westerman and Whiting doing extended repetitive field kicking sessions

We can't solve the issues of lack of an experienced centre, prop and SH at this point, but doing the above would give us a better chance than we currently give ourselves. We can control fitness too, and this seems to be OK.

I just think it's a cop-out to look to a scrum half to solve our many problems. Firstly, we should be capable of putting some things right just by having players take a bit of responsibility for themselves and their actions/performances. They're grown men being paid to play rugby, they shouldn't need somebody standing over them barking out orders at all times to remember what to do or make the effort to do it. Secondly, pinning it all on the acquisition of a halfback is only a partial fix. As we're seeing with Holdsworth, you can lose players for a while quite easily and be right back to square one. We still need to fix these problems at their source as well as getting another halfback.

another season of abject failure. can any one pojnt out difference of how we are playing this season to how we played under Agar. We are still Boring & Predictable.
Same inside pass over and over again. As for half backs.. You only have to look at wigan tonight. Playing with more first teamers out than we have.
Yet they played simple Rugby. Run Hard and support the man with the ball. Scott Taylor`s pass to charnley from left to right on the run. Great to watch.
Rugby is a simple game. I really do wonder what Gentle coaches during the week.
Gentle says were stronger faster fitter. Pearsons said we will not accept medicrity, yet one thrid of the season gone what have we seen, one convincing win over a very poor cas side who gifted us 6 tries.
I am more disappointed than I ever was under Agar.

Good point. Houghton seems to have worked hard on his kicking and has a decent boot on him from dummy half, but I do feel that we could use Whiting and especially Westermans' kicking games far more than we do since both have played in the halves in the past and are good with the boot.

Supporting the ball carrier & Dummy runners should be within the basic of coaching , Either we have lazy players or the coach isn't conveying this to his players !.

Seriously?

I thought it was his usual steaming pile of excrement from start to finish.

I'm not convinced that this is or has been an issue under Gentle.


You clearly don't use Twitter.

"We're still, for some reason, playing very conservatively. We're not doing a lot of things which we work on during the week.

"It wasn't until we started to chase points that we threw the ball around, started getting some shape and grew in confidence.

"It wasn't until we started to chase points that we threw the ball around, started getting some shape and grew in confidence."

"I don't know whether it's a lack of self-belief, or just trying to hang in with sides at the moment but we've got to get to the bottom of it.

"It took us a long time to warm into the game. It was just horrible conditions, and a horrible game really."
Peter Gentle

Wow!!
We clearly need someone or something to galvanise the players , to bring them together as one , to get them to understand what's needed before they get to the game , to understand the conditions , to put a plan in place , to empower the leaders in the group in order to carry out that plan...................but we've got a coach to do that haven't we?
Or maybe we just need a hugely better squad drawn from better teams than us rather than those below us. Ellis aside , when was the last time we signed a succesful player from a succesful team who were both operating around their peak and where the other team were really upset to lose them? Rovers get better Aussies than we do , why? Hell today we were "jealous" of the London "superstar" Bailey and his colleague Cook (ex everyone and with a good record against us) neither of whom we could hold. At the moment I reckon we have only one player who Wane would consider for Wigan. Lineham looks like their players the rest I'm afraid look like London's or Salford's. Even then surely we can sometimes at least coach the players to get to the floor and play the ball quickly and try to get on our toes with a bit of energy looking like we care .......can't we? Maybe not.
Maybe Leeds fans were as despondent as I feel now last year and maybe I'll be proved to be unduly pessimistic. I hope so.

i like gentle hes a great guy but i just cant see him been that coach who grills the team and makes them wear the shirt with pride he says the same things every week about the fact we just are not clicking and were doing good things in training and blah blah blah but paying for a season pass im getting bored now and im assuming its his job to get them playing properly with a game plan

I'm still on side with Gentle but only just. He has improved our defence which is great but offensively we are as poor if not worse than under Agar. Has he got what it takes to be a no.1? Still has it all to prove for me.

Serious questions need to be asked. Strong rumours that players are not convinced by him.

There is the argument that it's the players fault and whilst I agree they take some blame it's his team this year and he has had great support from AP. The argument that it's solely down to a lack of a halfback is a copout.

Although Bob went to far he did have a point over expectations.
AP seriously over-egged your pudding building up an expectation that you were going to find hard to fulfill.
NH (As much as he is ridiculed on here) quickly made it clear what the situation was and has lowered what we expected to a reasonable level. The fact it has created a feeling of 'Meh' probably wasn't expected but is a result of it that can happen.

With the greatest of respect there are a few posters on here who state 'Top 4 this year' only to then after 10 games say 'Sack the coach, I won't be buying a pass this year.' only to do it all again the next closed season when the club over-egg it again.
Now if this forum is a clear cross-section then doesn't that mean that there are a fair few that will believe any old twaddle the club come up with?

You got the one nobody wanted to employ despite the fact he prostituted himself to every club needing a coach

But it isn't, and you're an idiot if you think it is, so your point is mute.

Still bitter he turned your shower down then, Phillip?

True. The nobodies wanted PG, he turned them down.

Aww bless I guess someone was so keen to have a dig that he missed the word IF and a '?'.

No, I was pointing out that it isn't a clear cross section, and that you're an idiot if you think it is.

Either you think it is, In which case you're an idiot. Or you don't think it is, in which case what was the point in mentioning it? Hence a mute point.

Which is it?