I don't buy into that nonsense i'm afraid.

We run 3 competitions;
The Superleague
The Grand Final Series
The Challenge Cup

The way i understand it is this;

The league plays out as with any other league. League positions 1 to 14. The league winners receive the League Leaders shield.

The top 8 qualify for the Grand Final playoff series. Prize money is pooled and paid out depending on the effective placement in that competition. So you can come 7th in the playoffs but you still finished 6th in the superleague. It is to do with prize money and a way of distributing it.

Unless i see evidence otherwise, obviously.

The playoffs are not a separate competition. Hence the winners of the GF are the SL champions, not the GF champions.

And we've had the playoffs for longer than we've had the League Leaders Shield.

But rather than come out with my bad points, and actually simplifying things yourself, what do you actually want Richard Agar to do to achieve those goals.

We all know and want him to produce a trophy winning formula and entertaining rugby.

But, how? What does he do? and what does he say?

I thought i was a negative poster lately but on viewing this week after the weekend i look like on eof the more positive posters on here



As usual the thread seems to have gone away from the original purpose of the thread (nothing new there then) and I think the Pro/Anti Agar/board stuff has been done to death. In fact it is getting a tad boring now.

I don't understand what you're getting at? Are you literally asking me to say what he should be telling the players?

Besides, knowing what you want the players to be doing is only a small part of it... the real skill is in translating that into on the field performances.

I think this might be a big part of why he's hung around so long, maybe he talks a really good game to Rule and the board and he obviously impressed you last night, but when it comes down to it he can't put it into practice.

The evidence is that there is no such competition as 'The Grand Final Series'.... when have you ever heard that mentioned?!

Your points, though lovely put across, count for nothing with the anti Hull FC undertone you create. It's the polar opposite to EXPRO, who is very pro Hull FC, his views are also laughed off.

You are the anti-EXPRO and I claim my £5.

This doesn't imply that any league positions are 'amended', but does imply that there is a 'minor premiership' and a 'grand final'....

Maybe the RFL don't know themselves but i know that the Superleague 2010 table says we finished 6th AFTER the playoffs..

Thanks, I'll bear that in mind. I can only aspire that one day my posts can have the same high level of intrinsic value and widespread appreciation that yours do.

See my post with the RFL operational rules.... That official enough??

To be fair I've got to hand it to you, I've never seen someone try to rewrite the rules of a competition in order to prove a point



Nobody said anything about 'league positions being amended' but there are league positions and there are final standings after the playoffs. All the league leader's shield is is a trophy which recognises the team that finished top of the league, it doesn't mean it is a separate competition from the playoffs!

Where have I suggested that?

For the record, I renewed, but only becuase I wanted to keep my seat in teh hope that at soem stage agar will go an we start being worth the money I fork out every year

That's exactly what i'm asking, no simplifying, no exaggerations, just simply what you want a coach to do to achieve what you want, how he gets that through to the players and what another coach does differently.

We all agree that Rich is a nice guy and i get on with him well. I'm not saying he's the best coach in the world or that he'll ever achieve the things we all want, but i'm giving him the chance he deserves. Yes he impressed me last night because his attention to detail on things like his prematch prep and training is amazing. He's been given the chance to rebuild the club, get rid of the deadwood and give us a foundation to build on. I think we will start to see these benefits and year on year improve, that's all i ask for!!

So anyway, 2000 passes down on last year, sack the board, sack Agar, bring back David Latham and Phil Windley

Sign Andy Mighty to replace Calderwood and we'll all be happy

Just getting to Airheads/GODS UNDERTAKER level would be an improvement.

You are asking me about coaching techniques and I don't know the answers, but then I'm not paid a six-figure salary to know. I'm sure his intentions are magnificent but all I can do is judge the team on performances and results and over the 2 1/2 years he's been here he's consistently come up short.

Beyond that, you clearly have something of a relationship with the guy so it's pointless discussing his failings much further.

I agree with you but the highlight is for prize money purposes only. The league does run seperately, maybe not an entirely different comp, but it runs seperate. So prize money wise, we finished 7th. But in the Superleague table we finished 6th. Interpret it however you like, i have

I've seen virtually nothing in agar's near 3 year tenure to suggest he is a good coach and a huge amount to suggest he isn't. In 35 years of watching and playing the game I've seen very few coaches with as much money and resource produce so little on the pitch.

If you can provide me with some evidence that he is doing an "excellent job" then I'll happily consider it

But according to your argument: imagine the grand final was contested between Wigan and Crusaders and Crusaders won... are you saying that Wigan would still have received more prize money?

I've been having a interesting debate most of the afternoon with quite a few people on here.

Your contribution so far has been 'if you don't like it don't go' and 'your posts are meaningless'.

I rest my case

Less money is a symptom of the poor rugby though. Whilst I don't want to see the club lose out financially, maybe it's what is required for the club to take action. I'm sure if there had been relegation in 2008 and 2009 then the club would have replaced agar

I don't mate, i just want to give the guy a fair crack. If we are in a worse position when he leaves than we were when he came then i will hold my hands up and say i was wrong.

As we are, under Agar, we have been to a Challenge Cup Final and were winning with 15mins ish to go (ultimately fatigue got the better of us), and improved from being bottom of the table to the playoffs. Next season i expect 5th but i'd like higher and a good cup run however, expect and hope are 2 different things.

And how do you explain that the winners of the GF are the SL champions if they are two separate competitions?

The 'minor premiership' is a sop introduced when people complained that the team that finished top of the league got nothing. An afterthought. Slightly odd if the league is a competition in it's own right, wouldn't you say? In fact the very name itself implies that the league is a subordinate section of the competition.


The SL tables have always been frozen at the positions prior to the playoffs. I suspect that the main reason they are not updated is that it would simply be too confusing to do so.

The RFL have also issued emails in the past that confirm the final positions are decided AFTER the GF.

Quote ="Kosh" The RFL have also issued emails in the past that confirm the final positions are decided AFTER the GF.'" Makes it all the more intriguing where Berrigan's Bitch has got these emails from then, although it would be funny if the club had a different opinion on where they finished to the RFL! To clear this up please forward them to: g_brindley@yahoo.co.uk I suspect I won't be getting anything

Quote ="Kosh" The RFL have also issued emails in the past that confirm the final positions are decided AFTER the GF.'" Makes it all the more intriguing where Berrigan's Bitch has got these emails from then, although it would be funny if the club had a different opinion on where they finished to the RFL! To clear this up please forward them to: g_brindley@yahoo.co.uk I suspect I won't be getting anything