Down the middle we were SOFT and that's why we lost.

You can live with a try from a good cross kick, a lucky breakaway, Rangi Chase getting someone through once a game, and with all that even with poor goal kicking we'd have won, but for down the middle we were soft.

Embarrassing really when you look at our bench compared to their's. O'Meley turned it around by coming back and certainly not playing soft but by then the damage was done.

Shows where our side needs strengthening.

You lost the game with the stupid attempted pass on their line early in the second half. No need for it you were ten points up.

Spot on...they scored 3 trys off that mistake but none of the know it all muppets on here have picked it up...pass didnt need to be made but thats Westerman for you

Agree Westerman's pass could be called a turning point but it didn't have to cost us the game.

The lack of aggression down the middle cost us 12 points not some stupid pass in their 25. To be honest I'd focus more on Westerman's role in one of those "soft in the middle" trys not least because crucial defensive errors are a feature of Westerman and negate some of his obvious qualities

Agree with the OP's sentiment. The toughness of our defence at Warrington has gone missing, we let them make yards far too easily tonight.

They scored 18 points off that mistake.Agree with the comment about his role in the middle being soft,he goes for the glory hit and usually misses,im in a minority on here and dont rate him,think Pitts or Whiting offer more than he does.

Agree about Whiting but personally think he's better on the edge/second row. A bit suspect sometimes in the middle especially when he's played a lot of minutes (which is another question!)

I agree partly with the OP in that we did go soft in the middle for a period and it contributed. The poor goal kicking success percentage was also a factor. And the lack of respect for possession throughout the game but particularly in the first half and the shambolic effort in the second half under their sticks was the final nail. We did some good things but until we can hold the ball in attacking positions and behave like a top 4 team in that respect then we wont be winning anything any time soon.

Ellis is the difference with regards to aggressive defence. No leader on the field.

Deary me, three tries off one forced pass? If we tried actually defending, those tries wouldn't have happened.

Whiting was terrible tonight.

It's not a Whiting/Westerman competition. Had the pass not been forced it was more than likely we would have scored from the next play against a broken and retreating defence and they wouldn't have had the next six sets. Silly play by Westerman and costly - as were other plays by other players.

Whiting was crippled from midway through the first half. What's with the Whiting v Westerman eternal debate?

If I have to contribute I'd say Whiting has very few poor or average games, Westy has at least one brain fart almost every game. Some more costly than others. Tonight's was very costly.

Costly? Silly? We turned over the ball on their goal line. If we can't defend from there then we've no hope.

Whiting was blowing after 25 minutes, gave away a couple of penalties and had a hand in costing us at least one try. When people say he and Pitts offer more than Westerman, it's laughable, neither have been anywhere near as consistent this season, although in Pitts' defence he has played prop, which he isn't IMO.

Absolute rubbish.

I wasn't the first one to mention the whole Westy/Whiting thing.

And if Whiting was suffering then he should have been replaced, if he's made out he's fine, then trotted out that performance then who really had the brain fart?

Couldn't agree any less. The occasional good thing Westerman does isn't enough to make up for the poor errors and penalties etc. I know you wont agree but that's how I've seen it all season.

We should have scored and would have scored IMO if he'd kept hold of it early in the tackle count. That's the best form of defence IMO. Terrible play and I'm sure Westy would agree.

I actually agree that he should have come off but the coaching staff should have made that call for him. It was obvious he was struggling.

The Clark and Walker trys was very soft,

we miss Omeley when he goes off

Terrible? I'm glad we're trying this sort of stuff, Crooks' against Leeds was a similar situation, his came off Westy's didn't that's how it is.

I just can't accept that that offload was responsible for three Cas tries. Is our middle just going to get away with that?

Crooks' offload v Leeds was nothing like the one tonight it had a reasonable chance of being executed and Westy did well to catch it. The one tonight was a dump ball with the wrong hand while being spun sideways. If we'd scored from the next ptb and converted (novelty) we'd have been 22-6 up and in possession of the next set from the KO. He'll be taken to task about it and rightly so because it is small margins that make the difference. We defended poorly from then on and our middle men embarrassed themselves.

Soft I'm afraid is a good description. There's no mongrel , no enforcer and we essentially have too many tall pseudo ball playing nice guy forwards who concentrate for about an hour. It's frustrating because during their hour they do some really good things and we look almost a good side. I wouldn't have thought I'd say it a year ago but O'Meley is our only intimidating forward and understandably these days his impact isn't long enough. Of course we miss Ellis but I don't believe that he alone changes the impact of our pack that greatly. Certainly a huge amount of work still to be done but I hope and believe that the people in charge now actually understand what/who's needed.

Not three but it cost us field position and a possible 4 points

Out of that situation only one definite occurred, we couldn't defend and keep them out, that's why we lost the game, because our defending from 1-17 was woeful at times.

But that's the point, a 'possible' four points. We could have knocked on in the next play.

Holdsworth cost us 8 points.

Seems like another occurance of not getting up for the so called 'lesser' sides. Also giving the full side a week to toss it off in the Balearics was maybe not the best idea as its maybe put us back a few weeks in terms of fitness.