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| So I’m not a fan of the sport because I don’t have $$$ in my eyes...
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| #savetheheartlands
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| Quote ="Clearwing"He'll only count as £75k on the cap.'"
How's that? because he's moved from RU - i wouldn't have thought it'd have mattered with him playing League a few years ago.
how they deal with the marquee issue is going to be interesting; they already have the most expensive in Rugby and unless they can get Lussick to make a wage drop, they're gonna have to get rid of one , unless they're suddenly allowed 3/4/5.
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| Quote ="Tommy Duckfingers"That's the spirit!
Pretty much the biggest name signing I can ever remember comes to a brand new team getting our sport loads of column inches all round the world and 'fans' of the sport like you just want to moan. Sadly, we get the sport we deserve......
I for one hope Toronto make a success of it and I can't wait to see SBW play and hopefully I can find a way to get to Canada for our game there.'"
Absolutely agree with this
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| Quote ="Shifty Cat"How's that? because he's moved from RU - i wouldn't have thought it'd have mattered with him playing League a few years ago.
how they deal with the marquee issue is going to be interesting; they already have the most expensive Centre in Rugby and unless they can get Lussick to make a wage drop, they're gonna have to get rid of one , unless they're suddenly allowed 3/4/5.'"
No, not under the RU dispensation. There's also one for players returning to league after a gap of 5 years or more. 50% of their cap value (which for marquee players is £150k) is offset in year 1 of their contract. This drops to 25% in year 2.
Don't think they're allowed more than two so like you say they'll have to drop one of the others. I think we've done that with either Merrin or Hurrell so we could give one of the spots to Gale.
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| Quote ="Willzay"So I’m not a fan of the sport because I don’t have $$$ in my eyes...'"
You come across to me as bitter, jealous and with a chip on your shoulder. Why else would any genuine rugby league fan want Toronto to fail? I have no idea if they will be a success but I really hope they will be cos one thing's for sure in my opinion, the game as it stands is dying a slow death.
The much vaunted 'grass roots' game in the heartlands is swamped with dinosaurs who refuse point blank to change and are more happy to cut off their nose to spite their face than accept there might be a better way of doing things for the greater good. There are lots of good people in the amateur and junior game but sadly in my experience they are outnumbered by those more interested in furthering their own agendas or more commonly massaging their own egos by forming all conquering junior super teams, turning blind eyes to violence, letting their touchlines resemble the wild west and doing little to stamp out referee and player abuse regardless of the ages of those involved.
Slightly off topic I appreciate......
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| Quote ="Tommy Duckfingers". There are lots of good people in the amateur and junior game but sadly in my experience they are outnumbered by those more interested in furthering their own agendas or more commonly massaging their own egos by forming all conquering junior super teams, turning blind eyes to violence, letting their touchlines resemble the wild west and doing little to stamp out referee and player abuse regardless of the ages of those involved.
Slightly off topic I appreciate......'"
I know I shouldn't have but that made me chuckle a bit because you could have been describing when I played in the 80's and early 90's.
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| Sounds like he’s fighting Paul Gallen maybe next October, got a clause in his 10 million dollar contract, pity it wasn’t in August and Gallen gives him a good hiding. Talk about chasing money.
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| Quote ="Willzay"Maybe it’s just me, but I find it pretty distasteful that a club that was born three years ago can spend $3 million a year on a player when historic and proper clubs have gone to the wall (Widnes and Bradford for example).
Screw Toronto, and screw the expansionists.'"
What has Widnes and Bradford’s demise got to do with Toronto?
Toronto have generated more interest in rugby league in 1 week than Wakefield have in 50 years. That’s why they are good for the game
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| Quote ="Tommy Duckfingers"You come across to me as bitter, jealous and with a chip on your shoulder. Why else would any genuine rugby league fan want Toronto to fail? I have no idea if they will be a success but I really hope they will be cos one thing's for sure in my opinion, the game as it stands is dying a slow death.
The much vaunted 'grass roots' game in the heartlands is swamped with dinosaurs who refuse point blank to change and are more happy to cut off their nose to spite their face than accept there might be a better way of doing things for the greater good. There are lots of good people in the amateur and junior game but sadly in my experience they are outnumbered by those more interested in furthering their own agendas or more commonly massaging their own egos by forming all conquering junior super teams, turning blind eyes to violence, letting their touchlines resemble the wild west and doing little to stamp out referee and player abuse regardless of the ages of those involved.
Slightly off topic I appreciate......'"
As you say TD slightly off topic but oh so true regarding the amateur and junior game. I've experienced it so many times especially the building of super teams at junior level but we must all keep going for the good of the game.
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| Quote ="newgroundb4wakey"As you say TD slightly off topic but oh so true regarding the amateur and junior game. I've experienced it so many times especially the building of super teams at junior level but we must all keep going for the good of the game.'"
Sad but so true NGBW, I have nothing but admiration for the coaches at junior level who struggle for numbers week in week out, I’m sure Sonny will create a mad rush of kids into the game
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| Not sure why SBW is getting so much grief, its not his fault they offered him so much money?
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| Quote ="charlie"Not sure why SBW is getting so much grief, its not his fault they offered him so much money?'"
Don’t think it’s SBW getting grief and he’s not bothered one bit about the game, I think its SL fans thinking it’s the second coming of the messiah who’s coming to save our great game. It’s a money thing I’m afraid and you can’t blame him but next better offer he’s gone.
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| The heartlands would all be replaced by major European city clubs funded by millionaires if a lot of people got their way. British Rugby league would die as a result. They don't understand that to grow the sport you have to make it more appealing at grassroots as opposed to chucking money at a 35 year old to attract fans who already like Rugby to more games.
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| Quote ="Adam_Harrison9"The heartlands would all be replaced by major European city clubs funded by millionaires if a lot of people got their way. British Rugby league would die as a result. They don't understand that to grow the sport you have to make it more appealing at grassroots as opposed to chucking money at a 35 year old to attract fans who already like Rugby to more games.'"
But no one in the heartlands has that money.
It isn't stopping anyone in the North of England doing anything they like.
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| Quote ="PopTart"But no one in the heartlands has that money.
It isn't stopping anyone in the North of England doing anything they like.'"
Absolutely. Nowt stopping us from signing him or his ilk - other than the fact we haven't got a pot to in.
Pretending that signing SBW is anything other huge for various reasons just smacks of jealousy and insecurity from some fans. Let's be right here, if we had just announced him signing for us then we'd all be over the moon and there'd be crusty socks everywhere.
Ultimately, if Toronto have got their plan wrong and they flop on the field then they'll be in a dog fight at the bottom of the league with, most probably, a few other teams. After all, we want matters to be decided on the park don't we? They've come through the leagues and earned their shot and I accept I'll be in a minority here but I hope they do really well.
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| Quote ="Steph Curry"What has Widnes and Bradford’s demise got to do with Toronto?
Toronto have generated more interest in rugby league in 1 week than Wakefield have in 50 years. That’s why they are good for the game'"
Short memory Steph eh? In 1983 (LESS than 50 years ago), Trinity made an equally or more astounding, world newsworthy signing when they signed Wally Lewis. You must either be a young lass or Know little about the game!!
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| Quote ="Tommy Duckfingers"Absolutely. Nowt stopping us from signing him or his ilk - other than the fact we haven't got a pot to mickey in.
Pretending that signing SBW is anything other huge for various reasons just smacks of jealousy and insecurity from some fans. Let's be right here, if we had just announced him signing for us then we'd all be over the moon and there'd be crusty socks everywhere.
Ultimately, if Toronto have got their plan wrong and they flop on the field then they'll be in a dog fight at the bottom of the league with, most probably, a few other teams. After all, we want matters to be decided on the park don't we? They've come through the leagues and earned their shot and I accept I'll be in a minority here but I hope they do really well.'" }
I for one wish we had signed him, the Toronto fans are lucky to have got him on board.
As far as Toronto are concerned, I appreciate what you are saying , but if the trend continues towards a possible international SL, where do you think that would leave the likes of us, Cas, and Hull KR etc?
I have nothing against Toronto playing RL, but they should do it in their own league. Just my opinion of course.
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Quote ="Redscat"Short memory Steph eh? In 1983 (LESS than 50 years ago), Trinity made an equally or more astounding, world newsworthy signing when they signed Wally Lewis. You must either be a young lass or Know little about the game!!'"
It's even forgotten about by the media as well so you can't blame him
https://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/ ... -transfers
Makes you wonder did we ever sign the greatest rugby league player at all, little old Wakefield eh
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Quote ="Redscat"Short memory Steph eh? In 1983 (LESS than 50 years ago), Trinity made an equally or more astounding, world newsworthy signing when they signed Wally Lewis. You must either be a young lass or Know little about the game!!'"
It's even forgotten about by the media as well so you can't blame him
https://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/ ... -transfers
Makes you wonder did we ever sign the greatest rugby league player at all, little old Wakefield eh
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Makes you sick doesn't it, Snowie? There's unfashionable, and then there's Wakefield Trinity. By paying whatever they have for SBW's services have Toronto now set new levels of signing on fees for "world class" players??
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Makes you sick doesn't it, Snowie? There's unfashionable, and then there's Wakefield Trinity. By paying whatever they have for SBW's services have Toronto now set new levels of signing on fees for "world class" players??
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| Think we paid 8000 for Derek turner in 1959 big money in those days I bet he'd have given sonny bill a good game as well.
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| Quote ="PopTart"But no one in the heartlands has that money.
It isn't stopping anyone in the North of England doing anything they like.'"
Exactly so what you will have is a team full of clubs who will only be there if they have rich owners. What a joy. We'll get to watch the richest buy the mostest while clubs go to the wall that we all cherish and support - there you shall lose more fans than you will gain. The reason rugby league struggles is because historically it hasn't been able to retain the fans it already has. Some of the crowds Wakefield used to get makes our current attendances look like a joke. I've nothing against Toronto exisiting as a rugby league club - I have as a rugby league club in a competition based in Britain. Chucking obscene money at a player that is past his best rather than thwoing that amount of money at grassroots at Toronto and canadian rugby as a whole goes to show me that it's not so much expansion that is the motivator here. You need to as a sport show that you are worth more than other sports by getting young kids into the game, chucking ten million dollars at SBW is not the answer - it's an expensive gimmick. If this was about exposing more kids and families to the game, Toronto would have been far better off spending 10 million dollars on marketing or free tickets to kids and families who have never attended a rugby league game. You might get a few extra walk-ins of passive Rugby fans in to watch one game of the season but most people outside of Rugby don't know who SBW is. You need the power base and marketing in order to expand the game. I fear that there is some extreme naivety in some of the hyperbolic positive responses I've seen regarding this from Rugby League outlets. I'll be looking at attendance figures in the coming season extremely closely believe me. Is SBW going to be good to watch as a Rugby League fan? Yes. Is this going to be effective in making the game any better? Not for me. It might set a precedent for getting rid of the salary cap and trying to attract new teams to the league. New teams run by rich owners in an International Super League. Does that sound attractive? Not for me. I'm struggling to see any long-term planning or plan to improve Super League other than rolls of a dice and individual clubs paying extortionate amounts of dollars for players who are past it. TLicon_biggrin.gifR I don't see how Toronto spending that money improves the game overall? Unless they plan on throwing 100 million at 10 other top Aussies - oh wait, that wouldn't be improving the game either for young British players.
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| Quote ="Adam_Harrison9"Exactly so what you will have is a team full of clubs who will only be there if they have rich owners. What a joy. We'll get to watch the richest buy the mostest while clubs go to the wall that we all cherish and support - there you shall lose more fans than you will gain. The reason Rugby League struggles is because histroically it hasn't been able to retain the fans it already has. Some of the crowds Wakefield used to get makes our current attendences look like a joke. I've nothing against Toronto exisiting as a Rugby League club - I have as a rugby league club in a competition based in Britain. Chucking obscene money at a player that is past his best rather than thwoing that amount of money at grassroots at Toronto and canadian rugby as a whole goes to show me that it's not so much expansion that is the motivator here. You need to as a sport show that you are worth more than other sports by getting young kids into the game, chucking ten million dollars at SBW is not the answer - it's an expensive gimmick. If this was about exposing more kids and families to the game, Toronto would have been far better off spending 10 million dollars on marketing or free tickets to kids and families who have never attended a Rugby League game. You might get a few extra walk-ins of passive Rugby fans in to watch one game of the season but most people outside of Rugby don't know who SBW is. You need the power base and marketing in order to expand the game. I fear that there is some extreme naivety in some of the hyperbolic positive responses I've seen regarding this from Rugby League outlets. I'll be looking at attendance figures in the coming season extremely closely believe me. Is SBW going to be good to watch as a Rugby League fan? Yes. Is this going to be effective in making the game any better? Not for me. It might set a precedent for getting rid of the salary cap and trying to attract new teams to the league. New teams run by rich owners in an International Super League. Does that sound attractive? Not for me. I'm struggling to see any long-term planning or plan to improve Super League other than rolls of a dice and individual clubs paying extortionate amounts of dollars for players who are past it. TLicon_biggrin.gifR I don't see how Toronto spending that money improves the game overall? Unless they plan on throwing 100 million at 10 other top Aussies - oh wait, that wouldn't be improving the game either for young British players.'"
Spot on Adam. Well said. I agree with every word.
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| Quote ="Adam_Harrison9"Exactly so what you will have is a team full of clubs who will only be there if they have rich owners. What a joy. We'll get to watch the richest buy the mostest while clubs go to the wall that we all cherish and support - there you shall lose more fans than you will gain. The reason Rugby League struggles is because histroically it hasn't been able to retain the fans it already has. Some of the crowds Wakefield used to get makes our current attendences look like a joke. I've nothing against Toronto exisiting as a Rugby League club - I have as a rugby league club in a competition based in Britain. Chucking obscene money at a player that is past his best rather than thwoing that amount of money at grassroots at Toronto and canadian rugby as a whole goes to show me that it's not so much expansion that is the motivator here. You need to as a sport show that you are worth more than other sports by getting young kids into the game, chucking ten million dollars at SBW is not the answer - it's an expensive gimmick. If this was about exposing more kids and families to the game, Toronto would have been far better off spending 10 million dollars on marketing or free tickets to kids and families who have never attended a Rugby League game. You might get a few extra walk-ins of passive Rugby fans in to watch one game of the season but most people outside of Rugby don't know who SBW is. You need the power base and marketing in order to expand the game. I fear that there is some extreme naivety in some of the hyperbolic positive responses I've seen regarding this from Rugby League outlets. I'll be looking at attendance figures in the coming season extremely closely believe me. Is SBW going to be good to watch as a Rugby League fan? Yes. Is this going to be effective in making the game any better? Not for me. It might set a precedent for getting rid of the salary cap and trying to attract new teams to the league. New teams run by rich owners in an International Super League. Does that sound attractive? Not for me. I'm struggling to see any long-term planning or plan to improve Super League other than rolls of a dice and individual clubs paying extortionate amounts of dollars for players who are past it. TLicon_biggrin.gifR I don't see how Toronto spending that money improves the game overall? Unless they plan on throwing 100 million at 10 other top Aussies - oh wait, that wouldn't be improving the game either for young British players.'"
Can't argue with that mate. I've said it before, it's a shame Toulouse didn't have a backer or could have managed those crucial wins last season because that to me is the best natural expansion. With news of TV deals falling through for Catalans, if they'd have been promoted it would have been a real shot in the arm for French RL but also given the expansionists something to get their teeth into it, with the thought of another genuine derby and the chance to get more media interest across the channel, in an area with Junior development all the way up.
I had to laugh the other day when it was reported the SBW had been inquiring about his new house and where were the best places to live,thinking Tornto but nah, he was talking about Manchester because that's where they're based for months.
If you were to tell even the most open minded non RL fan, this idea that's come to fruition of a Toronto team started up by a billionaire backer and they're completely reliant on him, but they're playing in a European SL, plus what more, they can't play at home for a couple of months or whatever it is because it's too cold and the City won't let them because they need the stadium for other things. Then topped off by stuff like teams traveling over there and managing any effects of that. Then there grand media plan and main player brought into to keep them away from relegation is a 34 year old former great RL that's had to be gently nursed during the recent RU WC because he's had some pesky injuries. Oh aye the blokes on a yearly salary that's more than a whole SL team, I reckon you'd have to explain it a couple of times before they said, nah don't believe you pal.
Even though in the comparison I'm going to make there are plenty of differences from Toronto but generally there's a similar vibe with the NY Cosmos football team in the 70's when US football tried to become big time. The resemblance is a very rich man called Steve Ross - The world’s first media mogul had founded Warner Communications in 1971, whose catalogue boasted big names such as Barbra Streisand, Ray Charles and The Rolling Stones. Ross had ignited the cable television revolution, bought a company who launched the first ever video game console and helped integrate the comic book into the entertainment industry.Obviously the other similarity is they chucked a huge sum of money at him and was going to be the face for the team.
Ross bought out all the other Cosmos owners and wanted to create something big. With the team going nowhere fast infront of a few hundred people, Ross and the Cosmos team knew they needed something special to ignite interest in the team and in the NASL. That something special would be Pelé. Pele was at the back end of his career and had announced his retirement from his lifelong club Santos and in 1974 made the move to the USA. The reported deal was worth $4.5 million. This led to other stars moving over like Gordon Banks, Rodney Marsh, Geoff Hurst, Franz Beckenbauer, Carlos Alberto and George Best all graced the NASL.
Ateotd they enjoyed a few glory years when all the stars were there and the media were all over them and then Pele retired and the whole thing just fizzled out, to have to be all rebuilt years later.
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