kirmond said in his opening that Jordan gives 100% that’s not in question

In terms of effort and commitment I’d go as far as to say he’s gives as much if not more than any one on the pitch and he absolutely should be getting a starting shirt because of that

Chester is killing him by playing him at hooker though and killing us too
He’s doing to him what he did to max and Rocky

A hooker needs to have attacking flair, speed and be able to make positive creative decisions and most importantly attack the line

I like josh wood a lot, he’s clearly hard as nails and likes getting in to the oppositions face He’s very different to woody and that’s good but he does lack creative spark

So currently we have two hookers that struggle to create and coach who buy his own admission can’t get the players to do what he wants On the pitch

Not ideal is it

It's makes me laughing seeing so many people calling out the playing Crowther at Hooker decision. There were loads of people saying to do exactly that not long ago.
Crowther is clearly a 13 playing at 9.
But he brings defense so it's a stop gap.
If he played Harry Bowes you'd get the same people moaning he's killing him by playing him. Same as he killed Max by not playing him. Same as killing Annakin by not converting him to Hooker, same as killing Kershaw by playing him and then by not playing him.

At Wakefield you have to fix things a bit at a time. There isn't a Hooker out there in our price range that's a better option. It needs to happen for us to move forward. At the moment we are doing the best we can.
Would I play Josh Wood. Yes. Will he improve the speed of the play the ball more than Crowther, maybe but not a lot. Would we miss Crowther when he isn't on the field. Yes we would.

spot on

As regards playing crowther at hooker I was not one of those , I did suggest if we need a stop gap or developable hooker then either Brad walker or would be worth a go.

As far as I can see no one on here has criticised his efforts merely his ability as a hooker , but our problem in attack is manifest and obvious - we are incapable of creating tries. Our defence at times looks excellent but because we ain’t scoring when we are ascendant it tires and we start to drop off tackles . Where I do have a slight issue is saying he has to be on the field - where ? Certainly not at loose forward westerman is both in our leading tacklers and metre makers , in front of tanginoa really ? Personally think both Pitts and ashurst have more to offer in their all round game.

I actually think Jordan is a hard working back up back row forward , playing him at hooker I’ve never seen as he isn’t quick enough off the mark , and lacks perhaps that fleetness of mind the best hookers always have. Not quite sure why we can’t leave it at that

I get all the frustration – and I feel it just as much as any other ardent fan - but let’s put the losses into perspective: we’ve played only two games off the back of only one pre-season runout against Dewsbury; we could, and should, have won what was a close encounter against Leeds (in the very first game of the season); we were tied up at 6 a piece at half time against a Wigan side who defended brilliantly in the first half and in the second half ruthlessly exploited the enforced switch of James B into the centre following TJ’s injury (when we had a bench full of forwards). Off the back of that, people are calling for CC’s head to roll immediately, are singling out individual players for some pretty harsh and unfair criticism etc etc.. Now I’m one of biggest critics of the team and coach outside of this forum but I think we should not overreact just yet after two games.

That said, I accept that there are some pretty worrying signs in respect of our toothless attacking play even at this very early stage of the season. Just like last season and the season before, there is a bit of a deja vu feeling. I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom because there was a glimmer of improvement on display in that 20 min stint in the first half against Leeds to convince me (at least) that the group of players who CC has assembled are indeed capable of playing some decent attacking rugby. That has to be offset unfortunately by the reality that for nearly all the Wigan game, and most of the Leeds game, we were devoid of any real attacking threat.

Like previous seasons, we seem to lack any consistent structure in our attack. I look at all the NRL sides week in week out and watch how they set up in attack and think to myself why don’t and can’t we attack like they do. I’m not talking complex plays just the basic stuff: forming a deeper backline; running onto the ball and not catching it stood still and being driven back; having a number of players running at the line to confuse/keep defenders guessing as to who is going to hit the line with the ball rather than one out, predictable stuff which leads to easy defence reads and gang tackles; running intelligent lines; last tackle sets where our wingers actually compete for the ball with their opposite numbers or fullback. I don’t think any of that is really rocket science but it’s effective, it’s how you win games and it’s entertaining to watch.

The really frustrating part is that this team can do all of the above when it wants to – and, as I say, we saw a fleeting glimpse of it when they went 16-4 up against Leeds - so why don’t they do it on a consistent basis? For me, we need to be emulating (if we haven’t been) how NRL teams attack and that means getting those attacking fundamentals right. The coaches need to nail in training with the lads the plays that those NRL sides run and then make sure that they are executed come match day. It requires buy in from all the team obviously but specifically the half backs who need to grab games by the scruff of the neck and marshal the team around the paddock. It requires Miller to step up, be vocal and lead by example as captain and make sure that we stick to the script on the field and, if the team do not, to read the riot act and get the required response from his team.

If the attack continues to misfire over the course of the next 5-6 games – and I don’t think we could realistically leave it any longer than that to see the significant improvement that is required given the relegation threat (which is exacerbated by reason of the strength of the teams in the bottom half of the table) - then at that point people need to step aside and changes need to be made; for a start, a change of coach and a change of captain which for me would mean the promotion of Last and Pitts respectively.

We can’t keep relying on individual pieces of brilliance from TJ and Dave. If our attack does not start clicking as a collective – on a consistent basis and soon - then we will keep losing I fear that we will be relegated and I dread to think what that will mean for the future of the club.

dpbnov a good post but do you think there is more pressure on Miller and lino because of lack of help in attack by our 9 .The OZ teams seem to have a strong attacking one who can defend

I agree with all that.
Except the Brad Walker thing. That would just shift the issue.
We need a better Hooker.

I've said for a while but slow ball from Hooker stunts our attack.
Defenses know they can be on us before the ball has moved past first receiver.

Getting Lino improves it but it has just highlighted the 9 issue even more while Wood isn't around - and it's still a problem when he plays too just not as much.

I agree on Chester. Sadly I think the time for us to part company has arrived. I that you must be watching a different game to me though because I thought lino has impressed in both games

Totally disagree. The poster you contradict is correct

Come on....it is not just these 2 games is it? We know the pattern. It's depressingly predictable every match now. Since Kear left, our defence is abysmal. Our pack is too lightweight and leaves our halves compromised in every match

It’s not just two games it’s nearly two seasons and two games. We have basically the same squad and sadly the same coach. I would expect that by now Chester would have worked things out but once again evidence suggests not and he is still using the same excuses. He has never taken personal responsibility for how his team performs, but once again he doesn’t need to because he will always be backed by the board.
I would ask how many coaches would still be in situ with his record and the possibility of a contract extension. He has the closest thing to a job for life which is rare in any business but sport never.

I would beg to differ regarding Andy Last. When Radford was sacked last year, we were all screaming for an outsider to be brought into the club. The chairman thought otherwise and gave Andy a chance to show his credentials. He turned the team round and actually got us to the semi-finals of the playoffs. Chester I won't comment on as I've no idea what goes on with Wakey but I would say have some faith in Last and I'm sure you'll see some improvement.

Personally I’d give Rocky a run at hooker ,is it really that much different from a half back role nowadays ,he’s got the speed of thought and would certainly gee up things around the play the ball which at the moment is killing us ,as by the time the ball gets out to first receiver players are getting mullered .We’d certainly miss the defence of Crowther in the middle but I’m sure that would be offset by a much faster play the ball and dare I say it, a scoot from dummy half .This isn’t a dig at Crowther who I rate very highly ,just don’t think he is suited to the hooking role ,but hats off to him for his efforts.

We have got faith in Last and Poching ,and our on line defence and first half display have improved .The trouble is we have got a few player's that would go better in the championship.,and most of our decent players are are not as good as two year ago ,and big problems at 9.A lot of this is down to Me Chester so should imagine Last as not got the same input he had at Hull.

I'm pleased someone has mentioned the defence. I've been banging on about it for months. It is a total shambles, just look at the number of tries we concede. I hope to goodness they are doing something on the training paddock to sort out this achilles heel of ours because so far I've seen little evidence it has improved bar the first half against Wigan.

I’ve watched Wakey for a similar length of time to you pt so you are preaching to the converted

I certainly wasn’t one of the ones calling for crowther at hooker

Crowther isn’t clearly a 13 either
He’s a back row IMO

He’s not got the hands to be a ball handling LF bad he don’t believe he could become a third prop playing at 13, though he has put a lot of size on since last year
I wouldn’t rule that out at a later date

I don’t completely agree with that
Brad walker in the bit I’ve seen of him obviously has some attacking flair
I think he’d be a good temp option at hooker and should be given a chance
I think he’d grab the chance with both hands


Personally I’d like to see Rocky given a chance to play there
I think he’s got the skill set to do a very good job at hooker
Plus we need to find Rocky a permanent position in the team if max is going to be our starting fb

so after all the pressure and moaning about needing an organising 7 and may I add to that new coaching staff which everyone continuously went on about we now need a number 9. I’m sure if everyone keeps going on enough then carter and Chester will be convinced to get one. We didn’t need a 7 we needed two or three grafters all forwards IMO and one of them an hooker. We didn’t need two assistant coaches just an head coach who’s going to hold his hand up and say I’m the boss I take responsibility and then change and do something about it.
An hookers job in attack is to look around and scan the field for opportunities and to decide when to run and not to run, to give quality ball off the floor at pace and neither crowther or wood can do this. If you ask both if they would rather play hooker or not play of course they will say yes but if it’s unnatural and they haven’t got the tools to do it then there’s not a lot we can do, Chester was an intelligent player if he can’t see it then he needs to look harder.

I thought that CC should be given another 5 or 6 games, the truth is he will probably be given to the end of the season and take the club in to next season. The environment at the club allows for Chester to carry on and unless we have a clear chance of relegation he will remain.
The club lacks ambition and as long as it can take around 3500 to 4000 fans along with it things will not change.
Its a catch 22 sort of situation lack of ambition v budget available and C C seems to fit in perfectly.
Its only 2 games in and things will improve (I hope) and see results improving.
Chester said we are aiming for a top 8 at the time that statement was disappointing, it now seems totally acceptable.
The last 2 seasons have been tough because of injuries and covid, and C C been cut some slack and quite rightly in my view, however nows the time to get the team back to winning ways but blaming his players in public ain't the way forward. Some players have improved while others need to find the form of a couple of seasons ago.

I go into every game expecting a loss these days. I am rarely surprised.
Something has to give, that 2nd half against Wigan was nothing short of pathetic.

but why do we lack ambition to build a side, cas have a decent coach who identifies what he needs and gets it, Salford have done it, Huddersfield, Catalan and I’m not saying it lasts with these clubs but we just seem to float by year after year. The recruitment at our club is terrible brough, gigot , tangata, green to name a few, then he bows down and listens to the fans when they say we need an organising 7, well who’s watched him cause he don’t look like one to me, he looks short of pace for one. A 7 needs a pack to make ground something we didn’t do in 90 percent of our games last year.

Wildthing I started to expecting a loss every game since I saw the players , Mr Chester was bringing in last season ..Let's hope we can survive

For me the lack of ambition is driven from the top and filters down to the coaches, backroom staff, players and then supporters. Supporters become happy just to see a club still playing SL and expect nothing.
The lack of anger and frustration allows the club to continue on its path of mediocrity at best, it's a circle.
Until the club have a total change of heart and direction things will not change.
Not much point in having a nice new stadium while continuing on its present path.
Its how it is. Unless someone can convince me of another otherwise.

Perhaps instead of your constant whining, maybe you could put forward a few ideas yourself, you and mopsy seem to know all the answers, over a hundred years between you watching the not so mighty Trin, I'm sure you can come up with a better solution than those presently running and coaching the club.