The subject is immigration and migration so why are you dragging other rules/laws/legislation or whatever else anyone wants to pick the semantics out of!

You'll be quoting ye olde law that in York, it is perfectly legal to shoot a Scotsman with a bow and arrow which has as much to do with the subject as your argument

How ridiculous!

Why can't people debate something without being childish, insulting or belittling, it's so immature.

That's the problem - the whole EU referendum has been reduced to a debate on immigration and the issue of free movement within the EU is often conflated with the issue of refugees and economic migrants from the Middle East and Africa. There are many more issues that will effect us - positively or negatively. The reality is that no one, not one politician, not one economist and certainly no one on this forum has the faintest idea what the future will be if we Brexit. As has been said before - it's a massive leap in the dark and we stand to lose far more than we gain.
As for arguments that we have the 5th biggest economy in the world - has anyone considered that it's precisely because we've been in the EU for 40 years that our economy is so strong?

c

Sorry Avenger but you're starting to sound like Nigel Farage now. I'm not being childish or insulting or immature I'm just stating a fact. Start reacting like that and I think you've lost the argument.

Don't be live any of em..both sides only tell us "facts" to suit their argument. As for tax breaks we will be able to offer what the hell we like because we can make our own law's!!! As for trading with more with other euro countries ..where are the Germans gonna sell all those mercs and audis? Greece?bloody Albania? If it's a remain vote the europhiles will take it as a carte Blanche to dig us deeper into a euro state. No I'm not naive and form my own opinions . I do be live there are risks either way ..but this is the last chance we will ever get to remove ourselves from this failed experiment.we will have to continue to bail out the basket cases ad infinitum till they drag us down with them. There are numerous countries in the world that do just fine thank you without being dictated to by Germany and France. Trading agreement fine...but not this corrupt,unelected bureaucracy we have at the moment.

No it isn't ...we were 2nd or 3rd before we joined!!

We currently rely heavily on the finance sector however the bulk of that comes from the EU therefore by default we as a country will suffer. We also rely on the EU to curtail the extremes of employment law for example sick pay, maternity and the working time directive. I can't believe that Boris and his mates if successful would look to replace these with more draconian laws which they believe would increase profit.

How far are you going back

Really!

Which is it? 2nd or 3rd?
Whatever - if we hadn't been in the EU we might be the 10th or 15th now. That's the point, you, and no one else, knows.

Red tape such as working time directive, maternity pay, sick pay, annual leave and all the other rights that workers enjoy?

Rights for the consumer that give you recourse if a business sells you shoddy or defective goods - that kind of red tape?

If we leave, Cameron and his cronies will have us like the USA - barely any workers rights and services only for the wealthy - no thanks!

Only drizzle, not battery acid

There are plenty on the left that favour leaving the Euro the late Tony's Benn and the late Bob crow were Both anti eu.

At the last count there was 7 labour MP's out of over 230 that supported leaving, not exactly plenty. And Tony Benns son is one who wants to stay. In fact ironically so does Boris Johnsons dad! It's a funny old, diverse world we live in these days.

We could only set taxes at our side, which would have to be zero for most things as they are now otherwise we wouldn't trade anything. The EU would highly likely revert to their standard tariff for non trade agreement countries which means everthing that went to and from there would be subject to import and export duty, something that isn't the case now. So we could still buy those german cars you talk about, but unless they were built here they'd cost us more. And given that say bmw won't want to be paying an import tax everytime they ship a motor to the continent then they'd shift most of the production to their factories abroad to counter it. So yes as you say we'd need a trading agreement otherwise this country will be brought to its knees. But then we have to sign up to their conditions and pay for the privilege anyway. So we would have to adhere to their regulations but we would have no say at all in what happens. Thats the way you get dictated to.

No one knows whether those protections would be in place or not, the U.K. May well have introduced them anyway and we might have gone even further, giving workers and consumers even more tights.

This.

The main voices in favour of Brexit are the extreme right wing of the Conservative party. Does anyone seriously think they give a monkeys about working people? Everything they’ve said and done in politics over the past 30 years states the opposite. In the past they were all against the adoption of things like minimum wage and the 40hour week so you can expect these things to be quietly relaxed or dropped if we vote to leave. The Tories would turn further right wing if there was a Brexit. The right wing press go on about “red tape” but they’re all run by tax avoiding right wingers so don’t fall for the hype.

The political records of the likes of Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg, John Redwood, Zac Goldsmith, Michael Gove, Ian Duncan Smith, Chris Grayling, Peter Lilley, Nigel Lawson, Norman Lamont speak for themselves.

While we stay in we all retain some limited protection in the workplace and as part of the EU we have more clout internationally. It’s far from ideal. It wastes a tremendous amount of money. However we’re better off in it where we can influence it rather than taking our bat and ball home.

And we all like tights

Too right.

Oh yeah, I'm sure the conservatives who have set about dismantling the welfare state, privatising the NHS and giving tax breaks to big business are really keen to annoy them by giving the pesky workers more rights.

Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove & Katie Hopkins are all in favour Brexit. If that doesn't convince you to vote to "Remain", I'm not sure what will!!!

I just look at my kids and grandkids and wonder what a crap hole the UK will become for them if we don't get out now. Vote exit for short term pain but long term gain.

Yes nearly as bad as Peter mandelson Tony Blair Ken Clarke Michael heseltine and Peter box for remain

Mandelson and Blair were the in the Government that in 1997 brought in improved rights for workers, and increased protection in relation to housing, health, education, social protection and welfare. We all benefit from that.

They may have cosied up to big business and Blair might have got us into a disastrous war but domestically at least they did more for working people than the likes of the current lot.

Clarke and Heseltine represent the moderate part of what is a very right wing Tory party. That they’re voices of moderation shows how extreme the others are. I’ve no idea who Peter Box is.

Unless you’re very wealthy indeed you’ve nothing to gain by voting Leave.

That's rather the point though isn't it - the subject is very definitely not just immigration; but the negative, dog-whistle campaigning of idiots like Farage have made it so; the debate should without question be about the wider issues of EU membership, which includes the rules, laws and regulations that you don't want to be dragged into the discussion - they're relevant, pertinent and particularly for working class people, almost always in favour of Remain.