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Is the issue any more or less than this?... (underground)
excellent post
also much has been made of the option of moving the sports facilities planned for N to GH.
do people not realise that to do this you would have to
(a) change the current funding packages already in place,
(b) change the planning applications - more time
(c) increase (purchase additional) the volume of land available at G to provide space for these facilities. who will pay for this!!!!!!!!!!
in short it means that these facilities wont transfer. if N doesnt happen all these benefits will be lost to the wider WMDC community
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| Quote ="underground"Is the issue any more or less than this?...
I was posting a reply to an aussie on another thread and this developed... it seems simple to me, and is as I understood the process to be developing:
we have two clubs who have attracted millions of private investment into two sperate schemes... and, as I understand it... just need the council to honour a land loan agreement for both schemes to be built.
Infrastructure, roads etc are all covered in the planning of both projects, which include lots of community based schemes for sports and other facilities.... including jobs and employment opportunities
But this is not just about two clubs getting a stadium each... there is so much more at stake in this for the future of sport in the City of Wakefield and the Town of Castleford...
As I understand it the council have said that they will only release the land (against which loans can be drawn) if both clubs chose one venue and share, they have NOT reduced the amount of land in value at all... we had two pieces of land , two offers, land value = 2 million pounds each... now the offer is the same land , the same value, total 4 million but to go to one project only!
So this is not about available council funds or cost cutting!...
I believe the wakefield scheme doesnt need the combine amount of that offer to continue (4 million)... it needs the initially agreed amount (2 million) and council goodwill with regard to the planning application process. Which would suggest, but I have no proof, that Castleford do need the extra funds.
(at this point I would have to confirm that I trust neither club to tell the truth!)
We are told that the Wakefield scheme includes lots of additional sports facilities, indoor and outdoor, centres of excellence etc, for which sports foundation grants and lottery funding has been agreed, along with some very notable partners in business and education.
Allied to this is the buy-in of a willing developer (Yorkcourt) to include the costs of construction in the development of a wider business and retail centre...
Castleford have a developer and architect and are close to fulfilling the minor aspects which could delay their attempts... the Glasshoughton Stadium is to be based around existing tourist attractions and shopping facilities, but will have less of a focus on centres of sporting excellence (no discredit to the Cas team intended!)
The two are very different and council funding fundamental has not changed... I dont see the problem, so what are the council playing at?
Are they trying to force Wakefield to Glasshoughton, risking the loss of the other sports facilities - leaving the business and retail development to be built at a later date... albeit inevitably, and taking Trinity from its core support.
Are they trying to force Cas to Newmarket, leaving the glasshoughton site to other, more lucrative, leisure developers at a later date, and taking Cas from their core support.
[iOr is it that they are genuinely trying to kill off any sporting identity for the area in the hope of becoming a suburd of Greater Leeds??[/i
I dont get it so will someone please explain?'"
No point talking sense mate that just doesn't come into it. The area is crying out for quality sporting facilities and Newmarket would be a way of actually providing said facilities without having to rely on the incompetence of WMDC. As for becoming a suburb of Greater Leeds that might not be as bad an idea as it sounds given that Morley have managed to knock down and rebuild their sports centre in the time it has taken Wakey/Cas/WMDC to fail to lay a brick/gain full planning permission for either stadium or a new swimming pool or any other half decent sporting facility. WMDC striving to increase their lead in the national obesity tables. |
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I thought I'd posted this question somewhere the other day but now can't find it (maybe I didn't press submit - who knows)
As one of the franchise criteria points was allocated last time for turnover of over £2million and assuming it will be next time around,
Where does that leave us and/or Cas with regards to non matchday income from the use of a shared stadium or as tenants of a stadium we do not own??
Presumably a percentage of a clubs turnover is generated form the use of the stadium facilities by other parties during the week. If we are sharing a stadium does that income get split 50/50? I f we are tenants of a community stadium do we forego any chance of this income at all?
Does anyone know how it would work?
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| Quote As one of the franchise criteria points was allocated last time for turnover of over £2million and assuming it will be next time around,
Where does that leave us and/or Cas with regards to non matchday income from the use of a shared stadium or as tenants of a stadium we do not own??
Presumably a percentage of a clubs turnover is generated form the use of the stadium facilities by other parties during the week. If we are sharing a stadium does that income get split 50/50? I f we are tenants of a community stadium do we forego any chance of this income at all?Quote
very good point
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| Quote ="Fordy"I thought I'd posted this question somewhere the other day but now can't find it (maybe I didn't press submit - who knows)
As one of the franchise criteria points was allocated last time for turnover of over £2million and assuming it will be next time around,
Where does that leave us and/or Cas with regards to non matchday income from the use of a shared stadium or as tenants of a stadium we do not own??
Presumably a percentage of a clubs turnover is generated form the use of the stadium facilities by other parties during the week. If we are sharing a stadium does that income get split 50/50? I f we are tenants of a community stadium do we forego any chance of this income at all?
Does anyone know how it would work?'"
Think it was t/o of 4m mate. So no point lost as we aren't doing it now. The question of generating income and having to pay rent however would be issues wherever we went |
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| Quote ="Fordy"I thought I'd posted this question somewhere the other day but now can't find it (maybe I didn't press submit - who knows)
As one of the franchise criteria points was allocated last time for turnover of over £2million and assuming it will be next time around,
Where does that leave us and/or Cas with regards to non matchday income from the use of a shared stadium or as tenants of a stadium we do not own??
Presumably a percentage of a clubs turnover is generated form the use of the stadium facilities by other parties during the week. If we are sharing a stadium does that income get split 50/50? I f we are tenants of a community stadium do we forego any chance of this income at all?
Does anyone know how it would work?'"
Firstly, the turnover is £4m+ for licences.
I would assume it would be that each club retains their matchday incomes, whilst ground sponsorship is doubled in price (effectively it is 26 home games rather than 13 so double the exposure) and split 50:50 between the clubs. |
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At the time of the Newmarket fanfare one of the drivers for it was that as industrial units were going up this would really help WMDC meet their targets for industrial land development and so they would push it for that reason. This talk has all died down now.
Is that because if we go to GH the Newmarket development will continue just without a stadium?
To me this all stinks of the council trying their best to keep Cas in Cas and to get a stadium. I think they consider rugby to be very important to Cas (much more than Wakey) and dont want to further 'de generate' the place.
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| Quote ="Walrus"At the time of the Newmarket fanfare one of the drivers for it was that as industrial units were going up this would really help WMDC meet their targets for industrial land development and so they would push it for that reason. This talk has all died down now.
'"
No the NM development still meets the requirements the council have identified for the district. The distribution warehouses are something he council want in order to increase growth for the region. By the time construction begins on these units the greenbelt land will have been reclassified. |
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| Quote ="Tricky2309"Think it was t/o of 4m mate. So no point lost as we aren't doing it now. The question of generating income and having to pay rent however would be issues wherever we went'"
It's not so much losing a point it is losing the chance of gaining an extra point. |
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| Quote ="Fully"Firstly, the turnover is £4m+ for licences.
I would assume it would be that each club retains their matchday incomes, whilst ground sponsorship is doubled in price (effectively it is 26 home games rather than 13 so double the exposure) and split 50:50 between the clubs.'"
What about income other than sponsorship like use of conference facilities etc. Split or decided by what colour shirt the booker is wearing? That kind of thing. |
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| Quote ="Fully"I would assume it would be that each club retains their matchday incomes'"
=#8000FFIf Wakey were paying rent Cas & the council would be splitting concourse revenue between them, Wakey would only get ticket & programme money. |
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Quote ="Gaslight"=#8000FFIf Wakey were paying rent Cas & the council would be splitting concourse revenue between them, Wakey would only get ticket & programme money.'"
But it's not going to be like that. If it's a groundshare it will be made to benefit which club it inconveniences the most to ensure they get a respectable and fair deal from moving.
And Fordy, conference facilities as well should be split 50:50.
Cas have already been selling a special commercial section called "Club Fifty". I see no reason why Wakefield cannot sell the same initiative on their own terms, for their games.
www.castigers.com/_cmsDocs/Club% ... rtwork.pdf |
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Quote ="Gaslight"=#8000FFIf Wakey were paying rent Cas & the council would be splitting concourse revenue between them, Wakey would only get ticket & programme money.'"
But it's not going to be like that. If it's a groundshare it will be made to benefit which club it inconveniences the most to ensure they get a respectable and fair deal from moving.
And Fordy, conference facilities as well should be split 50:50.
Cas have already been selling a special commercial section called "Club Fifty". I see no reason why Wakefield cannot sell the same initiative on their own terms, for their games.
www.castigers.com/_cmsDocs/Club% ... rtwork.pdf | |
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Quote ="Fully"But it's not going to be like that. If it's a groundshare it will be made to benefit which club it inconveniences the most to ensure they get a respectable and fair deal from moving.
And Fordy, conference facilities as well should be split 50:50.
Cas have already been selling a special commercial section called "Club Fifty". I see no reason why Wakefield cannot sell the same initiative on their own terms, for their games.
www.castigers.com/_cmsDocs/Club% ... rtwork.pdf'"
Exactly Fully don't know how many times they need telling that all commercial revenues would be a 50/50 split. Wakey at the present are probably miles ahead in that department with match day hospitality.They at present contract it out which would I presume be exactly the same at wherever unless the possibility would arise for a inhouse events team (as Headingley Experience) to take on board all the catering/hospitality functions. It would be far more cost effective with 2 clubs plus the added attraction for function market is more appealing (which neither Wakey or Cas benefit from at present). The clubs would also have their own commercial dept's and retail outlets I'm sure.
There seems to much knickers in a twist rather than sitting down and exploring what could be very beneficial for both clubs. |
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Quote ="Fully"But it's not going to be like that. If it's a groundshare it will be made to benefit which club it inconveniences the most to ensure they get a respectable and fair deal from moving.
And Fordy, conference facilities as well should be split 50:50.
Cas have already been selling a special commercial section called "Club Fifty". I see no reason why Wakefield cannot sell the same initiative on their own terms, for their games.
www.castigers.com/_cmsDocs/Club% ... rtwork.pdf'"
Exactly Fully don't know how many times they need telling that all commercial revenues would be a 50/50 split. Wakey at the present are probably miles ahead in that department with match day hospitality.They at present contract it out which would I presume be exactly the same at wherever unless the possibility would arise for a inhouse events team (as Headingley Experience) to take on board all the catering/hospitality functions. It would be far more cost effective with 2 clubs plus the added attraction for function market is more appealing (which neither Wakey or Cas benefit from at present). The clubs would also have their own commercial dept's and retail outlets I'm sure.
There seems to much knickers in a twist rather than sitting down and exploring what could be very beneficial for both clubs. | |
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I agree, The Trip.
I do not care who puts money into what. For me, it should be an equal 50:50 split with each club doing their own thing as normal.
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Eddie on Boots n All sorted it all out so nobody worry.
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| Quote ="bigalf"19 miles roun trip is too far! Come on, it's nothing compared to the distance some people travel to home games. I bet that includes lots of WTWC supporters'"
About 202 miles round trip fpr me to home games at Belle Vue. About 196 to GH. But I won't go to "home" games at GH. |
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| Quote ="Fully"I agree, The Trip.
I do not care who puts money into what. For me, [uit should be an equal 50:50 split with each club doing their own thing as normal[/u.'"
It should be  i think a few people may have overlooked that point, anyhow it'll all come out in a few weeks, lets hope everyones happy. |
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| Quote ="Kevs Head"About 202 miles round trip fpr me to home games at Belle Vue. About 196 to GH. But I won't go to "home" games at GH.'"
Thats not what he wanted the hear  |
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| Quote ="Kevs Head"About 202 miles round trip fpr me to home games at Belle Vue. About 196 to GH. But I won't go to "home" games at GH.'"
About 1,168 miles round trip for me to home games at Belle Vue. About 1,168 miles to GH. But bollix to "home games" at Glasshoughton for me too. |
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DONT WANT TO DOOM AND GLOOM BUT HAS ANY ONE NOTICED WE ARE NOT SIGNING ANY ONE FOR NEXT YEAR WHILE CAS ARE SIGNING PLAYERS. MATHERS SIGNED ON A THREE YEAR CONTARCT SOMEBODY MUST BE CONFIDENT
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| Quote ="BIGAL1"Thats not what he wanted the hear
'"
No Bigal, What I wanted to hear would be what I would say!
I would not mind travelling a few more miles to see my team play in Superleague at a new stadium, if thats how it had to be! until my team could re-locate elsewhere where, hopefully still in Superleague |
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| Quote ="bren2k"Not sure, but if you mention GH in your post, an alarm goes off on the Cas board and their newly appointed Wakefield liaison officers will be along in no time to tell you exactly what's best for you and WTW.
Watch...'"
Quote ="bigalf"No Bigal, What I wanted to hear would be what I would say!
I would not mind travelling a few more miles to see my team play in Superleague at a new stadium, if thats how it had to be! until my team could re-locate elsewhere where, hopefully still in Superleague'"
Bingo! |
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| Quote ="bren2k"Bingo!'"
Alarm working OK  |
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| Quote ="BIGAL1"It should be
i think a few people may have overlooked that point, anyhow it'll all come out in a few weeks, lets hope everyones happy.'"
More chance of plaiting fog. |
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| Quote ="bigalf"Alarm working OK
'"
No matter how many smileys you use, we won't a) like you or b) give you our money for your stadium. |
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i think a few people may have overlooked that point, anyhow it'll all come out in a few weeks, lets hope everyones happy.
