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| Quote ="financialtimes"Some of the previous debt was agreed to be paid off so it may be part of that, however I fail to see confirmation anywhere that the debt is £1.5m
I know last years accounts showed a loss of approx. £1m and we are around 1/2 way through the following year so it's not totally unfeasible that we have accumulated an extra £500k but I can't find anywhere in print that it has been confirmed that this is the amount we owe, the only place I've seen it is on here, the cas forum and the nut job funny farm forum.
Can someone point me in the direction of official confirmation of our current debt please?
 '"
Sorry that might be me - I was assuming the tax bill and a few others were not included in that original 1 million figure and that it's now nearer 1.5 million. May be wrong but I can't imagine that figure has stayed the same and working on the principle the CCJ's etc are an indicator I guess it's gone up not down.
Truth is AG may be playing a blinder or we may be in big bother I really don't know. What I do know is this is exactly the kind of thing the old regime did and that didn't end well. However the speculation and negativity is doing the club immense damage and although it may not be AG's fault only AG can sort both the problems and the perceptions. |
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| Quote ="kiwiballs"Same lot running the club under Glover that ran it under Richardson = same result.'"
I know what you mean but it doesn't let Glover off the hook - the buck stops with him. |
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Quote ="Topcat13"Together we are SKINT....'"
There is no change there then it still doesn't stop me enjoying my rugby on a sunday afternoon..... you know what they say 'don't let the =#FF0000EDIT grind you down'...
We start getting it right on the pitch and then money issues spring up again. 
Not bad for a team with 2/3 key players missing & only 2 interchange subs available second half, pushing the Super League champions all the way at their ground, losing by just 2 points and also giving them their highest crowd attendance of the year at 18,300. ....'the biggest rugby league crowd of the weekend in either Super League or the NRL witnessed last Friday’s West Yorkshire derby.'
Lets hope its a capacity crowd at Belle Vue to increase the coffers. I know it won't clear £1.5 million debt but we also need to have more of those promotional days against the smaller clubs at Belle Vue like the Broncos where the crowd went up to 8000 instead of 5000. They need to be targeted each season and then announce them a couple of weeks before each game to increase revenue. WTW marketing staff need to be paid for results.... maybe a revenue Star Award suggestion scheme etc for fans to help with innovation in this area to help appeal to a broader cross section of business to make it attractive for sponsorship? A WTW Loyalty VISA card like some football clubs have where a % goes to the club?
Something needs to be done differently.....
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=421878&tsmp=1374519189 |
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Quote ="Topcat13"Together we are SKINT....'"
There is no change there then it still doesn't stop me enjoying my rugby on a sunday afternoon..... you know what they say 'don't let the =#FF0000EDIT grind you down'...
We start getting it right on the pitch and then money issues spring up again.
Not bad for a team with 2/3 key players missing & only 2 interchange subs available second half, pushing the Super League champions all the way at their ground, losing by just 2 points and also giving them their highest crowd attendance of the year at 18,300. ....'the biggest rugby league crowd of the weekend in either Super League or the NRL witnessed last Friday’s West Yorkshire derby.'
Lets hope its a capacity crowd at Belle Vue to increase the coffers. I know it won't clear £1.5 million debt but we also need to have more of those promotional days against the smaller clubs at Belle Vue like the Broncos where the crowd went up to 8000 instead of 5000. They need to be targeted each season and then announce them a couple of weeks before each game to increase revenue. WTW marketing staff need to be paid for results.... maybe a revenue Star Award suggestion scheme etc for fans to help with innovation in this area to help appeal to a broader cross section of business to make it attractive for sponsorship? A WTW Loyalty VISA card like some football clubs have where a % goes to the club?
Something needs to be done differently.....
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=421878&tsmp=1374519189 | |
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"I'm only guessing, but is there a possibility that this is an example of foresight and good management?'"
If it's preparation for a pre-pack, then it's only another example of directors and shareholders salvaging what they can, which in most cases is a considerable amount of their own money, to be allowed to start again. Foresight and good management would never have led to this situation in the first place. |
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These are the amounts of CCJ's that are still owed however the tax bill is not listed but they would be foolish to wind up a company that has made a payment proposal.
In the last 24 months there have been:
3 unsatisfied CCJ(s) at a cost of £15,623
6 satisfied CCJ(s) at a cost of £39,240
The last unsatisfied CCJ was issued on 24 May 2013
Issued Description Value
26 Jun 2013 Winding Up Petition
05 Jun 2013 Winding Up Petition
24 May 2013 County Court Judgement £2,903 NORTHAMPTON
08 Apr 2013 County Court Judgement £4,231 NORTHAMPTON
27 Feb 2013 Satisfied CCJ £4,614 GLOUCESTER
23 Feb 2013 County Court Judgement £8,489 NORTHAMPTON
21 Feb 2013 Satisfied CCJ £4,877 NORTHAMPTON
30 Jan 2013 Satisfied CCJ £3,938 NORTHAMPTON
19 Jan 2013 Satisfied CCJ £10,001 WAKEFIELD
08 Jan 2013 Satisfied CCJ £9,932 NORTHAMPTON
29 Nov 2012 Satisfied CCJ £5,878 NORTHAMPTON
12 Nov 2012 Winding Up Petition Rescind
27 Sep 2012 Winding Up Petition
The accounts ending 31st January 2013 will show how you are doing and you started with debts of nearly £ 1.3 million which is a lot for a new company. Good luck.
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So where did you get the info regarding£1.3 million from Illy?
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| Quote ="JINJER"So where did you get the info regarding£1.3 million from Illy?'"
That was the amount on the recorded accounts wasn't it? |
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| Quote ="Theboyem"That was the amount on the recorded accounts wasn't it?'"
Don't know mate, that's why I asked. |
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| Quote ="kellys eye"So you feel that me still having the money is better than the club having it . CLOWN.'"
I think he was more commenting on how the instructions were clearly laid out for everybody. |
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| Quote ="illy"These are the amounts of CCJ's that are still owed however the tax bill is not listed but they would be foolish to wind up a company that has made a payment proposal.
In the last 24 months there have been:
3 unsatisfied CCJ(s) at a cost of £15,623
6 satisfied CCJ(s) at a cost of £39,240
The last unsatisfied CCJ was issued on 24 May 2013
Issued Description Value
26 Jun 2013 Winding Up Petition
05 Jun 2013 Winding Up Petition
24 May 2013 County Court Judgement £2,903 NORTHAMPTON
08 Apr 2013 County Court Judgement £4,231 NORTHAMPTON
27 Feb 2013 Satisfied CCJ £4,614 GLOUCESTER
23 Feb 2013 County Court Judgement £8,489 NORTHAMPTON
21 Feb 2013 Satisfied CCJ £4,877 NORTHAMPTON
30 Jan 2013 Satisfied CCJ £3,938 NORTHAMPTON
19 Jan 2013 Satisfied CCJ £10,001 WAKEFIELD
08 Jan 2013 Satisfied CCJ £9,932 NORTHAMPTON
29 Nov 2012 Satisfied CCJ £5,878 NORTHAMPTON
12 Nov 2012 Winding Up Petition Rescind
27 Sep 2012 Winding Up Petition
The accounts ending 31st January 2013 will show how you are doing and you started with debts of nearly £ 1.3 million which is a lot for a new company. Good luck.'"
Illy, just out of curiosity why do you feel the need to post the above ?
Are you a concerned Wakefield Fan or are you just "stirring" the brown stuff up. Also where have you seen the debt of £1.3m posted because I would not know where to find such information. |
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The last (and in this case first) set of financial results stated spirit of 1873 lost £1.2 million. I assume that is what the poster is referring to. These figures are readily available to the public.
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| Quote ="Theboyem"The last (and in this case first) set of financial results stated spirit of 1873 lost £1.2 million. I assume that is what the poster is referring to. These figures are readily available to the public.'"
Where can I see them ? |
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Quote ="Sandal Cat"Where can I see them ?'"
you need to register on a site like this:-
companycheck.co.uk/
Its usually a couple of quid per company and there is hundreds of sites to choose from. |
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Quote ="Sandal Cat"Where can I see them ?'"
you need to register on a site like this:-
companycheck.co.uk/
Its usually a couple of quid per company and there is hundreds of sites to choose from. | |
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Quote ="Tigerade"you need to register on a site like this:-
companycheck.co.uk/
Its usually a couple of quid per company and there is hundreds of sites to choose from.'"
Thanks.
All I can see is a figure of liabilities of £925k and a net worth of -£1.2m. It does not say who the liabilities are. It may be the bulk of the debt is to Andrew Glover himself and/or other Directors so pretty much like Castleford or any other Super League Club. |
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Quote ="Tigerade"you need to register on a site like this:-
companycheck.co.uk/
Its usually a couple of quid per company and there is hundreds of sites to choose from.'"
Thanks.
All I can see is a figure of liabilities of £925k and a net worth of -£1.2m. It does not say who the liabilities are. It may be the bulk of the debt is to Andrew Glover himself and/or other Directors so pretty much like Castleford or any other Super League Club. | |
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Just wondering, did i get slated for something less than all this
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| Quote ="Sandal Cat"Thanks.
All I can see is a figure of liabilities of £925k and a net worth of -£1.2m. It does not say who the liabilities are. It may be the bulk of the debt is to Andrew Glover himself and/or other Directors so pretty much like Castleford or any other Super League Club.'"
From memory the club has a 500k interest free loan from West Yorkshire Windows, which has to be paid 'when the club can afford to do so'. So whether this actually would show on the sheet i'm not sure as it doesn't class as owing within a year? Somebody with more knowledge than me of this will be able to explain better. |
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| Quote ="bazzo44"Just wondering, did i get slated for something less than all this'"
No, you said we could be in Administration by the end of the week which was a rumour without any hard evidence.
All I have done is quoted figures that are in the public domain to demonstrate that if our debts are owed to Andrew Glover or his Company then the situation is no different to Castleford and many other Super League Clubs who are in debt to their own Directors.
The point I'm making is that debts to your owner who is unlikely to pull the plug is different to owing money to to an aggressive creditor like HMRC who will wind you up if they are not paid.
Sorry if I was not clear in the way I put it. |
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| Quote ="Sandal Cat"Thanks.
All I can see is a figure of liabilities of £925k and a net worth of -£1.2m. It does not say who the liabilities are. It may be the bulk of the debt is to Andrew Glover himself and/or other Directors so pretty much like Castleford or any other Super League Club.'"
You are correct. If AG has done this it would show on the P&L sheet as "directors loans". The net worth of minus (-) £1.2m is the worrying bit. |
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| Quote ="Tigerade"You are correct. If AG has done this it would show on the P&L sheet as "directors loans". The net worth of minus (-) £1.2m is the worrying bit.'"
I don't know how well qualified you are as an accountant Tigerade but, analysing accounts is a job for the experts.
For example are the new stands a straight forward cost or capital investment ? |
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Investment because they can be taken down and re-used elsewhere.
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| Quote ="Tigerade"You are correct. If AG has done this it would show on the P&L sheet as "directors loans". The net worth of minus (-) £1.2m is the worrying bit.'"
But doesn't net worth take into account "directors loans". Hypothetically if AG or WYW had loaned Spirit of 1873 of £1m then the Clubs net worth would only be -£200,000.
The point I'm making is that no one as far as I'm aware knows the exact position we are in but we seem to have "doom and gloom" on this Board. AG has said times are tough. We lost Eric France's sponsorship and have not had a decent home game for ages so cash flow will be a problem.
We should have a bumper crowd on Friday and then the following Sunday we are at home to Bradford so we have 2 good pay days coming up plus the Season Ticket offer to existing members all of which should go hell of a long way to ironing out our cash flow issues.
Of course people have a right to ask questions of the Club but I would hope that Wakefield Fans would get behind the Club because if we don't we'll have no Club to get behind. |
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| Quote ="Sandal Cat"But doesn't net worth take into account "directors loans". Hypothetically if AG or WYW had loaned Spirit of 1873 of £1m then the Clubs net worth would only be -£200,000.
'"
Depends how it is shown on the balance sheet and only shareholders are privvy to this information. Also depends on which accountancy firm you use to draw up the yearly figures. Some can be "massaged" into other items and have to questioned - this is usually done at the AGM but I don't think WTW have shareholders to deliver this to anyway. |
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| Quote ="Sandal Cat"The point I'm making is that no one as far as I'm aware knows the exact position we are in but we seem to have "doom and gloom" on this Board. AG has said times are tough. We lost Eric France's sponsorship and have not had a decent home game for ages so cash flow will be a problem.
We should have a bumper crowd on Friday and then the following Sunday we are at home to Bradford so we have 2 good pay days coming up plus the Season Ticket offer to existing members all of which should go hell of a long way to ironing out our cash flow issues.'"
The club has taken a massive blow with Eric France sponsorship going - very similar to Cas Tigers not getting the cash from Probiz a couple of years ago. The next 2 home games will bring in much needed CHC. I would be worried about the season ticket offer though. During November and December most SL clubs rely on this as the only income stream. |
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| Quote ="Wollo-Wollo-Wollo-Wayoo"I think he was more commenting on how the instructions were clearly laid out for everybody.'"
Clearly not everybody  |
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