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| Quote ="braytontiger"Since newmarket was put back this was on the agenda from cas has the need to build has quickly diminished giving the club time rather than rushing things for the sake it.'"
Why has the need to build quickly diminished?
the RFLs options may be Castleford at WR for at least 2 years of the next franchise period and no guarantee of that it won't be the whole 3 years.
or
Wakefield at Oakwell for the full 3 years with the possibility that it could be less with Newmarket maybe being ready for late 2013 or 2014.
Castleford are ahead of Wakefield or so it seems but if Richard Wright can't get the build coming out of the ground within the next two years Wakefield, under new financially sound ownership, are likely to race past them.
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| I am glad that RW has come out and said what the Yorkshire construction rumour mill has be saying for some time, Castleford don't yet have the finances to build at GH. The sale of Wheldon Road is the key finance deal that will see Castleford able to start and probably fully complete the wonderful new stadium at GH.
Now, the real issue here is that the bloody RFL need to put a stop to all the animosity, resentment and fear that the whole of the current license process is creating, especially between Wakefield and Cas fans. This constant arguing and bickering between Cas and Wakey fans is wasting too much energy and putting great divides into this great close-knit game of OURS!
I have a very serious proposition for all the Cas and Wakey fans... this wonderful energy has now to be put into coming together and taking the fight to the RL. The time for arguing amongst each other is over... NOW is the time to tell the RFL as a united voice that they have to keep both clubs in SL for the next three years and even that you both sign a deal saying that if either one of you are not playing in a brand new stadium by the start of the next franchise application then you forfeit the right to even apply. Admit Widnes, yes, but don't kick anyone out!
The reasons Cas and Wakey are struggling is more due the economic crisis than any other reason and RW admission about GH should send this message loud and clear to the RFL.
If there was ever a time to come together as one and fight, then this has to be it.
Can it be done... I, as a Rhinos supporter, hope it can.
The challenge is yours... are you guys up for it?
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| Just listened to aRL podcast that my son did on the William Hill radio and Barry McDermott made an interesting point about another SL club who were experiencing difficulties and he put the question why not merge and hopefully product one strong team. Don't shoot the messenger here as I'm only passing on what they said but from what they inferred the team can't be based too far away from us unless it's another Hull/Gateshead situation . And of course Barry M may have been given duff info. They also said they had a soft spot for Wakefield. I get the feeling that the majority of SL fans don't want either Wakey or Cas to go out of SL.
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| Quote ="Inflatable_Armadillo"I have a very serious proposition for all the Cas and Wakey fans... this wonderful energy has now to be put into coming together and taking the fight to the RL. The time for arguing amongst each other is over... NOW is the time to tell the RFL as a united voice that they have to keep both clubs in SL for the next three years and even that you both sign a deal saying that if either one of you are not playing in a brand new stadium by the start of the next franchise application then you forfeit the right to even apply. Admit Widnes, yes, but don't kick anyone out!
'"
If we did that the RFL would say 'Seeing as you're such good friends, you can share a franchise!'. Sorry IA, normally I think you talk a lot of common sense, but the last thing Wakey and Cas should do is bury their (hopefully good natured) rivalry! The RFL don't seem to be paying any attention to their customers because they have moved too far from the game into their own corporate utopia where the true nature and spirit of OUR game matters nothing unless there are swish facilities. Style over substance - Camerons Britain! (Although he's just carrying on where Blair left off).
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| The idea that Wakefield could some how pay the rent at Oakwell and have a commercially viable business is crazy.
Remember that it is not simply the rent that you would have to pay. Revenue derived from bar sales advertising food sales and corporate hospitality would disappear.
Sponshorship with in the ground would be Barnsleys. You would loss all advertising rights in the new ground
Bar and food is normally franchised out to a seperate company who inturn pay the owners of the ground a commission for doing this. Barnsley get the income.
Any restuarant sales are also collected by the owner of the ground - you just wont have to pay for the services provided.
That leaves you with 4 revenue sources.
1 Gate receipts - As St helens are currently experiencing gates fall if you move away from your local fan base. last year Saints had a high percentage of games being close to a full house of 17k. This years attendance at the begining of the season are 10k. Plus they have a winning team which attracts more fans supposedly.
2 - Corporate advertising on shirts etc - probably unaffected
3 - Merchandise - on the assumption gates fall it is likley so will sales of products normally purcahsed by fans at games.
4 - Sky cash - this will be roughly in line with current income
Generally speaking clubs expect to make losses on stadium moves - they can do it for a season but at a cost.
Think about it in this sense. Barnsley wont provide the facilities at cost they will charge a mark up. This will invariably be at a greater cost to the club moving than running it out of the original staduim.
Plus you loss any secondary income i.e. not via gate receipts.
Question can Wakefield really afford to move given that attendances currently are not showing any huge signs of improvement?
This throws into question the viability of saying that barnsley is actually possible which is the fundemental logic behind giving Wakefield a new franchise. Yes a good stadium but again a completely flawed business plan.
If it is so easy and commercially viable why dont cas just say - we will move to Doncaster?
This would counter any move by Wakefield moving to Barnsley. Its not viable!!!
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| Quote ="wakeyrule"If we did that the RFL would say 'Seeing as you're such good friends, you can share a franchise!'. Sorry IA, normally I think you talk a lot of common sense, but the last thing Wakey and Cas should do is bury their (hopefully good natured) rivalry! The RFL don't seem to be paying any attention to their customers because they have moved too far from the game into their own corporate utopia where the true nature and spirit of OUR game matters nothing unless there are swish facilities. Style over substance - Camerons Britain! (Although he's just carrying on where =#FF0000Thatcher left off).'"
Edited for accuracy 
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| I appreciate where you're coming from and if Wakefield were to enter an agreement under the terms you outline then it would be tough to make ends meet but not impossible.
AG would no doubt have to consider whether the long term benefits were sufficient to justify any financial input by Spirit of 1873 Group.
Having said that the worst case scenario you portray isn't necessarily the one we will find ourselves in.
Stadiums can be re-dressed from game to game and I have first hand experience of this being done for much higher profile events than a Super League/Championship game.
Wakefield may well agree to share the revenue from bars etc with Barnsley FC who without Wakefield as a tenant would be getting 100% of nothing.
We may also lose some home support but equally we might pick some up, one thing that holds our attendances back is the state of Belle Vue. Visiting support often travels in smaller number due to the lack of cover, facilities and amenities. Oakwell would be a lot more inviting and would have a novelty attraction as well.
It's also reported that staging a game at Belle Vue is just as expensive as the proposed rent at Barnsley.
Given that we can now spend up to the full cap, when in previous years we've been somewhere round 50%, it's likely that the team on the pitch would be more attractive and more competitive which would naturally lead to higher attendances.
Now I might be as guilty of picturing a Rose tinted situation as you were in stating the worst but IMO Oakwell is doable in the short-term.
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| Quote ="bigalf"Edited for accuracy
'"
Can't even bring myself to write that witches name, let alone speak it! 
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| Quote ="Hatfield tiger"The idea that Wakefield could some how pay the rent at Oakwell and have a commercially viable business is crazy.<snip>'"
If TR was still in charge, I would share your concern that we were blundering into an arrangement without a fully costed business plan; we're being run properly now though, and it's equally crazy to think that someone with Mr Glovers credentials would take us to Oakwell if it was the road to ruin.
Wanting something to be true doesn't make it so.
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| Quote ="bren2k"If only planning decisions were that simple; when it comes to travel & transport issues, they don't base their decisions on what people can or should do, they base them on what people actually do, and they infer knowledge about what people actually do using some fairly arcane methodology.
I've just had to pay a specialist consultant a considerable sum of money to produce a travel plan for a development I'm in involved in, to demonstrate to the WMDC Highways bods the number of vehicular journeys the development will attract when it's complete. I know already, because I run 13 sites with similar developments in other parts of the country, but my simple logic didn't even come close to satisfying the Highways Depts' requirements.'"
Oh yeah, I know that. However, on the other hand, is it fair to say that the same could be said of Xscape just assuming that everyone will drive?
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I do apologise. The likelihood, however, is that not every home game is going to be played on a Sunday and so my point is also valid.
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I do apologise. The likelihood, however, is that not every home game is going to be played on a Sunday and so my point is also valid.
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| And after briefly skimming the other stuff - a lot of which is ifs, buts and maybes - if Wakefield move to Oakwell (I believe this is based on gaining a licence anyway), what is to stop Cas coming out and doing the same with say Doncaster? The idea that you're simply going to be ahead can be swiftly cancelled out and so it renders it pointless.
With regards to the licence itself, the stadium is just one part of it and clubs will be adjudged on other areas too. Whilst stadia is one area, finance, community, media, marketing, sponsorship, youth academy, on the field performance etc etc are all other facets. It would be remiss of us to start comparing clubs and 'willy waving' regarding the licence on this thread considering things have gone so smoothly at the moment without any bitching.
There's a lot of water to go under the bridge, however, I guess that the RFL will be aware of the club's situation and the financial climate and will recognise that the club - to be competitive from 2012 onwards - has to be in the strongest position it can be. Selling it's MAJOR asset for a cheap price is rubbish business sense. Whilst fans will understandably be frustrated at any delay - getting the right price is key. After all you only get one shot at building a stadium!
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| I wasn't suggesting that just moving to Oakwell would put Trinity ahead, what I was saying is,if Cas are unable to begin building for two years and Wakefield get a positive decision from the PI in the next 12 months then Wakefield, with Full Funding secured, would be ahead.
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| Quote ="The Clan"I wasn't suggesting that just moving to Oakwell would put Trinity ahead, what I was saying is,if Cas are unable to begin building for two years and Wakefield get a positive decision from the PI in the next 12 months then Wakefield, with Full Funding secured, would be ahead.'"
I wasn't really referring to you mate - I was reading from two pages back or so.
You've got to apply for Reserved Matters too after the PI.
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| Theres a cas fan at our place who as always said cas have no money to build a new ground apparently there is 4 charges on wheldon Road to be paid off even when it is sold. It got me thinking how many RL clubs have been able to fund a stadium build themselves. Widnes council leigh council hull council Wigan football Warrington tesco and council help. Thats why were in a good position with Newmarket with funding all in place just need PP PLEASE.
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| Quote ="Fully"I wasn't really referring to you mate - I was reading from two pages back or so.
You've got to apply for Reserved Matters too after the PI.'"
I beleive that FPP will be fired straight in within a matter of weeks of getting the nod, obviously after any required changes or alterations to the plans.
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| I thought braytontiger's summary was a good, honest appraisal, outlining the downsides and as well as the up.
Cas have got a lot more to be optimistic about in the short term, in that we have had a stinker of an off-season and Cas will be a lot stronger on the pitch (and I would prefer it if that's where things were decided). I think, however, we have a lot more to be optimistic about in the longer term, in that we are likely to be in a new stadium first and we have a new owner who seems keen to change things. The issue is whether the RFL will be swayed by how things look right now.
The move to Oakwell will tick a lot of boxes. Cas could just move out of Wheldon Road, but that still wouldn't bring the new ground any closer, and the lack of funding might still cause them problems.
Of course, the RFL could make it a lot easier for themselves and boot us both out, on the basis that neither of us have fulfilled our promises to be in new grounds, and shove Widnes and Halifax in. That way, lots of shiny new seats and the Championship has lots of lovely derbies to keep the crowds up.
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| Quote ="wakeyrule"Can't even bring myself to write that witches name, let alone speak it!
'"
I've got a bottle of champagne in the pantry ready for when her clogs finally pop
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| Quote ="Fully"And after briefly skimming the other stuff - a lot of which is ifs, buts and maybes - if Wakefield move to Oakwell (I believe this is based on gaining a licence anyway), what is to stop Cas coming out and doing the same with say Doncaster? The idea that you're simply going to be ahead can be swiftly cancelled out and so it renders it pointless.
With regards to the licence itself, the stadium is just one part of it and clubs will be adjudged on other areas too. Whilst stadia is one area, finance, community, media, marketing, sponsorship, youth academy, on the field performance etc etc are all other facets. It would be remiss of us to start comparing clubs and 'willy waving' regarding the licence on this thread considering things have gone so smoothly at the moment without any bitching.
There's a lot of water to go under the bridge, however, I guess that the RFL will be aware of the club's situation and the financial climate and will recognise that the club - to be competitive from 2012 onwards - has to be in the strongest position it can be. Selling it's MAJOR asset for a cheap price is rubbish business sense. Whilst fans will understandably be frustrated at any delay - getting the right price is key. After all you only get one shot at building a stadium!'"
Do you think, if it came to it, a temporary move to Donny for Cas, would it work? The distance from Cas, 20 miles is a long way, it would be like us using Hillsborough . I know some people have said the same about Oakwell, but that's only 10 miles.
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| Quote ="braytontiger"
4) There will be a major announcement in the next 2-3 weeks which will set everybody's mind at rest (no panicking yet please).
'"
Looking back over your summary of Castlefords meeting this one intrigues me!
2-3 weeks from now takes us to the RFLs announcement of who is coming up from the Championship.
Stay with me here,
Richard Wright announces the bombshell news that Cas don't have the money to build their stadium and that they won't be in a position to move forward for at least the remainder of 2011.
After all the film flam what's changed so radically that RW feels comfortable enough to smash the facade that he's so carefully crafted?
He then suggests a major announcement is due which should alleviate any fears for the future of Castleford in SL.
What could that announcement possibly be?
Given that the RFL won't be announcing which SL club is to be demoted till July what could this mystery announcement be that it can put Castlefords supporters fears to bed?
The one and only thing I can think of is that the RFL will announce that no one is being demoted when it announces that Widnes & Halifax are coming up.
Think about it, if that's the decision that the RFL have come to it makes sense to announce it asap in order to allow all clubs the chance to stabilise themselves and to protect the integrity of this years SL competition.
Food for thought?
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| "4) There will be a major announcement in the next 2-3 weeks which will set everybody's mind at rest"
I look forward to RW's major announcement so much that I have put it in my diary. So let's see...giving him the maximum time...that's...oh yes, April 1st.
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| Quote ="bigalf"That makes a change.
Oh dear!
'"
So it's not a dump - so why you moving? 
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| Quote ="Schunter"I've got a bottle of champagne in the pantry ready for when her clogs finally pop'"
Yep - I'm lobbying to install either a dance floor or a urinal when she's buried, so we can express our feelings at her passing in the approprate way.
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| Quote ="dboy""4) There will be a major announcement in the next 2-3 weeks which will set everybody's mind at rest"
I look forward to RW's major announcement so much that I have put it in my diary. So let's see...giving him the maximum time...that's...oh yes, April 1st.'"
Am sure I have read somewhere that last week in march or first week in april in when they are expecting to get fpp approved.Should have already been done but was put back to allow time to sort parking space issue out.
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| Quote ="The Clan"Looking back over your summary of Castlefords meeting this one intrigues me!
2-3 weeks from now takes us to the RFLs announcement of who is coming up from the Championship.
Stay with me here,
Richard Wright announces the bombshell news that Cas don't have the money to build their stadium and that they won't be in a position to move forward for at least the remainder of 2011.
After all the film flam what's changed so radically that RW feels comfortable enough to smash the facade that he's so carefully crafted?
He then suggests a major announcement is due which should alleviate any fears for the future of Castleford in SL.
What could that announcement possibly be?
Given that the RFL won't be announcing which SL club is to be demoted till July what could this mystery announcement be that it can put Castlefords supporters fears to bed?
The one and only thing I can think of is that the RFL will announce that no one is being demoted when it announces that Widnes & Halifax are coming up.
Think about it, if that's the decision that the RFL have come to it makes sense to announce it asap in order to allow all clubs the chance to stabilise themselves and to protect the integrity of this years SL competition.
Food for thought?'"
Must admit that thought had been crossing my mind also. We suspected that Castleford did not have the money from the sale of Wheldon Road and thats pretty much been confirmed by RW. He also seems quite relaxed about the fact that there will be no stadium ready for the start of 2012 and indeed may be not until 2013.
I think we may have a 16 team competition next year and I think Widnes will be admitted. The other one may be Halifax or Leigh but I would not rule out Toulouse.
May be putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 but with other things that are happening we may be right - lets hope so for our sake as with Andrew Glover we seem to have a guy who knows what he is doing and I certainly like what I'm hearing. We may have a second chance to get our house in order.
Of course we could be way off the mark.
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