Vasty, you couldn't be further from the truth in your assessment of Derek Turners off the field persona, in fact he was the very opposite of Ben Cockayne.

Derek was and is one of the quetiist and nicest people you could wish to meet and would rather damage himself before he did anyone harm.

Speaking with players who knew him at his peak, they have nothing but affection for him as a person but they all tell the same story about his change of personality once he put his shirt on. Bob Haigh said there was something about that collar passing over his ears that changed him from the quiet fella that entered the dressing room to the raging brute that left it.

I see him from time to time and he always smiles and has time to speak for a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, even now there's an air of menace lurking within him but I've never seen or heard of him letting it loose without him first being in a rugby shirt.

I understand what you're trying to convey but you chose the wrong bloke to make your point.

Cockayne only really has an attitude problem of the pitch where as Tansey has a problem both on and off. In which case he isn't worth the bother for me.

One of the deepest threads i've read on here for ages, you can tell the seasons over.

Also, I was kind of hoping we would be moving away from the "lets sign a nutter and reabilitate him" regime for [uprofessional acting [/usportsmen.

This is not about legality - it's about the credibility of the organisation; yes, winning games is a contributory factor to its credibility but let's be honest, Cockayne is hardly Billy Slater.

For me, we have to be able to balance quick wins with the need to appeal to and be acceptable to as many sections of the community as possible; a lot of our work is with vulnerable or disadvantaged groups and that work attracts significant plaudits and considerable grant-funding - it's highly likely that it also attracts commercial revenue - didn't AG's first involvement with the club come when his daughter became a Wildcat Kitten?

In view of all that, I say again, there has to be a line.

I never said he was like Cockayne. I also never suggested any issues with Turner off the pitch which of course makes him very different from Cockayne. I have no wish to bad mouth the man, but it is part of the legend that he did a great deal to cultivate on the pitch.

I also qualified it by saying it is what other people have told me. I'm willing to say that as ever the truth probably lays between the two. Whichever way you look at it becoming a raging brute as you put it under any circumstances is generally an unwanted personality trait would you not say. What we can never know is what impact modern attitudes and modern life would have on players from that era, none of us live in a bubble. Clearly there was something that controlled Turners aggression to a point that it only came out in games of RL. I also think it's a bit easy to over sentimentalise players from that era - you simply don't get a nickname like Rockey without there being some smoke in the fire. Either way he has all the traits that are acceptable on the pitch but not off it, the fact that he managed to control it is a blessing but as you say it's still there.

Anyway regardless as you say the point remains the same.

There are two lines in RL...

The try line and the line at the bottom of the cheque - everything else is optional. You can chose to believe otherwise if you want that's admirable and that's not me being patronising but you will be let down sadly.

I'm not trying to get into an argument here but you make this statement then immediately go on to draw a comparison between Fox & Turner



I know you're not trying to denegrate Derek Turners reputation and I've no doubt that you admire him and his on field ability. It's just that there's more than a hint your post that he wasn't someone you'd want to know off the field which is wrong.





I don't want to drag this out and derail the thread and I know your point is about Cockayne not Rocky Turner but I wouldn't want people to get the wrong impression about Derek as a man.

Fair enough, as I say what I know is most certainly second hand whilst I'm certain yours is not.

You'll forgive me also being slightly patronising then, when I say that in the modern world of business management, the concept of 'triple bottom line' is well established; it's not enough any more to be profitable and/or successful by old fashioned metrics - the company also has to take account of the effect it's policies and actions have on the communities in which it operates. I'd contend that the recruitment policy is an important part of that consideration.

I don't want to come across as sanctimonious or holier than thou, but as a parent of two young kids trying manfully to support their interest in RL and specifically WTW, I think that the conduct and behaviour of our players [udoes[/u matter and I, for one, am not disposed towards forgiving any indiscretion just because the perpetrator can score a couple of tries.

Well it's not down to us but I suspect IF Agar wants him he will be allowed to have him.

Nowt wrong with the kid ON the field, he is avery good player. If you can get him to stop acting like a numpty OFF the field you will have a really good asset in Cockayne.

I'm actully enjoying this thread, as someone one is interested in the social sciences it is very interesting

I think there is more chance of me winning the lottery than Agar signing Tansey.
Good player,who is an idiot to himself.

Jordan Tansey???

UMAD?

remember signing bad boy john burke sent off more times than he could remember nobody wanted him went on to to tour austrailia we turned him round worth a chance only one but where to play him is another thing better than mcgoldrick

I can understand the misgivings about signing Ben Cockayne - I probably have the same ones. Now an interesting factor is that those Hull FC posters on here on the Agar threads (well the sensible ones) do say that RA did sort out problems in the dressing room and on the field which were a real problem when the took over as Head Coach. I'm not sure how much this influenced off the field behaviour but it may throw a different light on the matter. In addition, as someone else has pointed out, he must know he's really on his last chance. Put it all together and it MAY be a good signing. I'd still not want to see a three year contract - one year and renewable on certain conditions would be better.

Mmmm .... still can't make up my mind.

Would he be the same player?????

Danny Brough didn't get his reputation by playing the odd game of Bridge.

Good as he is, I don't think Cockayne is good enough to warrant the baggage he brings with him. There must be equals or potentials more deserving of a chance. He doesn't strike me as the kind of bloke who would upset the team spirit, which is the main issue for me with "bad lads". Equally, he doesn't strike me, on past form, as smart enough to stay out of trouble, last chance or no last chance, Richard Agar or no Richard Agar. I wouldn't be bothered either way, but I'd sign a replacement at the same time to cover for the inevitable.

If the lad willing to start on a final written warning then I don’t see no downside to signing him. He has the ability and aggression and will potentially make an excellent squad player. The guy know he’s in last chance saloon, and I’m sure that will be his motivation. Sign him up I say, but as long as he knows that the first sign of trouble he is out the door.

If we didn't sign him, would another Super League club take him on?

Yes plus a couple of clubs in Oz too

Sadly, we are not yet in the position where we can be picky about who we sign up. From what I have seen of him he would definitely improve the team. I wasn't over the moon about agar, but I'll give him a clean slate as I will with BC. For me the main priority for next season is to get a team that will compete. I hope if we do sign him he shows the right attitude and gets his priorities straight.

spot on...

On the field he's a decent player, if we can keep him focussed on playing rugby rather than drinking he'll be an asset to the team. He'll give us cover full back centre wing and i believe he's also played 13 so good cover for numerous positions and if tongia doesnt sign he could make the full back position his own.

Surely not the NRL?