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Maybe the top owners are fedup with puting money in to keep clubs competative,while the RFL sit back and watch the demise.They must get sponsers if we want to go forward,if they cant,get someone who can TOP PRIORITY.
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| Quote ="M62 J30 TRINITY"with minimum standards back on the cards getting moved into Newmarket ASAP is essential . Business plan back on track new stadium decent sized City we could make the grade'"
As stated by Blake Solly last night the size of stadium would not be a criteria. As long as it was safe and good enough for Sky to broadcast in HD, you could have a capacity of 5K. The fact that obviously from a business point of view NM would be better means its a must but it won't matter standards wise, Belle Vue would be good enough.
In any case Newmarket is a long way off yet i'm afraid. 5 years at least despite what some might want to tell you. |
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| Quote ="sixtogo"In any case Newmarket is a long way off yet i'm afraid. 5 years at least despite what some might want to tell you.'"
I disagree slightly. With the recent deal regarding the freezer plant we are much closer. The problem being is that the 106 agreement only provides £9M in funding.
We could therefore be very near to starting construction of a small stadium that could be developed and improved at a later date. However if you want to make sure all the funding is in place for a 12K stadium then yes you are correct this could be a while before sufficient financial resources are gathered.
With what was suggested last night I would prefer a start on a stadium to fit the £9M budget and then look to improve. |
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The RFL's latest proclamation on this is laughable; they are suggesting that their failure to market the game properly or to achieve a main sponsor is because they've been too busy micro-managing individual clubs. That has all the hallmarks of desperation and doesn't cut it with me - for example, what exactly were their commercial and marketing teams so tied up with in terms of 'micro-managing' that they were unable to deliver results in their real jobs?
Looks like interesting times ahead for the game; if this disgruntled group of SL chairmen becomes a genuine breakaway, the Sky money would quickly follow and so would the rest of the clubs, and that would be the end of the RFL.
Viva la revolution I say - it's time the sport was governed by people with the appropriate level of skill, business acumen and intelligence to extract maximum value from what is still an excellent product, but criminally under-valued.
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| Quote ="bren2k"The RFL's latest proclamation on this is laughable; they are suggesting that their failure to market the game properly or to achieve a main sponsor is because they've been too busy micro-managing individual clubs. That has all the hallmarks of desperation and doesn't cut it with me - for example, what exactly were their commercial and marketing teams so tied up with in terms of 'micro-managing' that they were unable to deliver results in their real jobs?
Looks like interesting times ahead for the game; if this disgruntled group of SL chairmen becomes a genuine breakaway, the Sky money would quickly follow and so would the rest of the clubs, and that would be the end of the RFL.
Viva la revolution I say - it's time the sport was governed by people with the appropriate level of skill, business acumen and intelligence to extract maximum value from what is still an excellent product, but criminally under-valued.'"
Be careful what you wish for - if it were to be the end of the RFL then SL (or son of SL) would be IMO a closed shop of 10 or so clubs with no p and r - and we wouldn't be in it.
Top level RL would be lost to this district because of short sighted greedy chairmen.
Im no fan of the buffoons at Red Hall , but this would be disastrous for our club, district and rugby playing youth. |
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| Quote ="kinleycat"Be careful what you wish for - if it were to be the end of the RFL then SL (or son of SL) would be IMO a closed shop of 10 or so clubs with no p and r - and we wouldn't be in it.
Top level RL would be lost to this district because of short sighted greedy chairmen.
Im no fan of the buffoons at Red Hall , but this would be disastrous for our club, district and rugby playing youth.'"
This^^
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| Quote ="bren2k"The RFL's latest proclamation on this is laughable; they are suggesting that their failure to market the game properly or to achieve a main sponsor is because they've been too busy micro-managing individual clubs. That has all the hallmarks of desperation and doesn't cut it with me - for example, what exactly were their commercial and marketing teams so tied up with in terms of 'micro-managing' that they were unable to deliver results in their real jobs?
Looks like interesting times ahead for the game; if this disgruntled group of SL chairmen becomes a genuine breakaway, the Sky money would quickly follow and so would the rest of the clubs, and that would be the end of the RFL.
Viva la revolution I say - it's time the sport was governed by people with the appropriate level of skill, business acumen and intelligence to extract maximum value from what is still an excellent product, but criminally under-valued.'"
The problem for any break away group is that the RFL own the rules to the game or at least the clubs who sanction the RFL as their governing body do. If a big 10 broke away and things became acrimonious between them and the other 20+ member clubs then I doubt the 10 would be given permission to play Rugby League as we know it. |
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Ive just copied some of the text from sky sports news take on this story (it is of course acompanied by a smug picture of Woods), it reads:
"The Rugby Football League had called an extraordinary general meeting for Wednesday which was expected to finalise arrangements for a new league comprising two divisions of 12 teams and the restoration of automatic promotion and relegation from 2015.
However, a revolt led by Wigan chairman Ian Lenagan has prompted the RFL to postpone the EGM, due to be held in Leeds, until after the World Cup, which runs until the end of November.
A statement issued by the RFL said: "A majority of Super League clubs have indicated an interest in further consultation on the detail of the proposals in order to reach the best solution.
"These discussions will continue to positively progress but all parties involved are unanimous in their belief that the key focus for rugby league at this moment is staging a successful Rugby League World Cup 2013 and this should be the focus of the sport.
"The RFL will be making no further comment at this time."
Shock development
The shock development is an embarrassing climbdown for the governing body and threatens to undermine the credibility of RFL chief executive Nigel Wood, who was the driving force behind the policy review.
Lenagan called a meeting of Super League clubs in Warrington on Monday when it is thought they agreed to put pressure on the RFL to apply the breaks to the restructuring proposals.
The Wigan owner is concerned that the plans would weaken the financial position of Super League clubs in comparison to those in the Championship, who would receive more central funding under the reorganisation.
It is also believed Lenagan urged representatives at Monday's meeting to stick with a 14-team division, even though the Super League clubs had three times voted to go down to 12.
The proposals on the table for Wednesday's egm had been to either have straight-forward promotion and relegation between two divisions of 12 or introduce a convoluted system in which the two divisions divide into three leagues of eight after 23 rounds."
I've highlighted the bit i found most incredulous as i wasn't aware Woods had any credibility!!
It shows that there is a real threat from the powerful chairmen that can very eassily destabilise the RFL.
It shows they are not very caring for clubs out of the SL and do not wish for them to benefit financialy when we all know that the only way of making p and r work is by closing the gap between SL and the Championship and making it sustainable.
Is P and R back off the menu, despite wanting a 12 team SL are they now wanting a 14 team competition?
I think these are worrying times in the game, change may well need to come but whether everyone benefits is at the moment anyones guess.
Proceed with extreme caution!!
Full report here:
www1.skysports.com/rugby-league/ ... ring-plans |
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Ive just copied some of the text from sky sports news take on this story (it is of course acompanied by a smug picture of Woods), it reads:
"The Rugby Football League had called an extraordinary general meeting for Wednesday which was expected to finalise arrangements for a new league comprising two divisions of 12 teams and the restoration of automatic promotion and relegation from 2015.
However, a revolt led by Wigan chairman Ian Lenagan has prompted the RFL to postpone the EGM, due to be held in Leeds, until after the World Cup, which runs until the end of November.
A statement issued by the RFL said: "A majority of Super League clubs have indicated an interest in further consultation on the detail of the proposals in order to reach the best solution.
"These discussions will continue to positively progress but all parties involved are unanimous in their belief that the key focus for rugby league at this moment is staging a successful Rugby League World Cup 2013 and this should be the focus of the sport.
"The RFL will be making no further comment at this time."
Shock development
The shock development is an embarrassing climbdown for the governing body and threatens to undermine the credibility of RFL chief executive Nigel Wood, who was the driving force behind the policy review.
Lenagan called a meeting of Super League clubs in Warrington on Monday when it is thought they agreed to put pressure on the RFL to apply the breaks to the restructuring proposals.
The Wigan owner is concerned that the plans would weaken the financial position of Super League clubs in comparison to those in the Championship, who would receive more central funding under the reorganisation.
It is also believed Lenagan urged representatives at Monday's meeting to stick with a 14-team division, even though the Super League clubs had three times voted to go down to 12.
The proposals on the table for Wednesday's egm had been to either have straight-forward promotion and relegation between two divisions of 12 or introduce a convoluted system in which the two divisions divide into three leagues of eight after 23 rounds."
I've highlighted the bit i found most incredulous as i wasn't aware Woods had any credibility!!
It shows that there is a real threat from the powerful chairmen that can very eassily destabilise the RFL.
It shows they are not very caring for clubs out of the SL and do not wish for them to benefit financialy when we all know that the only way of making p and r work is by closing the gap between SL and the Championship and making it sustainable.
Is P and R back off the menu, despite wanting a 12 team SL are they now wanting a 14 team competition?
I think these are worrying times in the game, change may well need to come but whether everyone benefits is at the moment anyones guess.
Proceed with extreme caution!!
Full report here:
www1.skysports.com/rugby-league/ ... ring-plans | |
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| Quote ="kinleycat"It shows that there is a real threat from the powerful chairmen that can very eassily destabilise the RFL.
It shows they are not very caring for clubs out of the SL and do not wish for them to benefit financialy when we all know that the only way of making p and r work is by closing the gap between SL and the Championship and making it sustainable.'"
This is the point, for mine. I suspect they want something similar to the Australian model, with feeder clubs who would then receive some financial support directly from the top clubs they're feeding, rather than continuing to operate as smaller, independent clubs and receiving a larger share of the funds from the RFL.
I don't know whether the British public would buy into an idea like that. It seems to contradict a lot of the values that define our sporting nation. |
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It sounds as though we have sided with Leeds in FAVOUR of the RFL's proposals and are the only two clubs that have come out in support. There's a surprise.
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Surely now this has has come out in our current situation we'd be voting to stay 14 team sl with p&r. I think stay at 14 with 2 up 2 down from 2015 to keep everybody happy
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| Quote ="RebelRebel"This is the point, for mine. I suspect they want something similar to the Australian model, with feeder clubs who would then receive some financial support directly from the top clubs they're feeding, rather than continuing to operate as smaller, independent clubs and receiving a larger share of the funds from the RFL.
I don't know whether the British public would buy into an idea like that. It seems to contradict a lot of the values that define our sporting nation.'"
Feeder clubs and a semi-closed shop make sense from a business perspective. Whether the majority of fans would agree, I doubt it. This is not the 1980s anymore. Leigh, Fev or whoever are not going to win the top flight "Championship" again unless they are bankrolled with millions of pounds. Sad maybe, but that's the reality of sport in 2013. |
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If we have sided with Leeds behind the RFL plan I fear we are no longer independent. Who represented us at Mondays meeting and if we did back the RFL plan why, it's like turkey's voting for Christmas.
I hope or expect this to be an incorrect assumption or family is more important than who pays the salary.
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| Quote ="t-r-i-n-i-t-y"Feeder clubs and a semi-closed shop make sense from a business perspective. Whether the majority of fans would agree, I doubt it. This is not the 1980s anymore. Leigh, Fev or whoever are not going to win the top flight "Championship" again unless they are bankrolled with millions of pounds. Sad maybe, but that's the reality of sport in 2013.'"
I wouldn't disagree with you on that, except to say that this has been the reality of rugby league or any other sport since the oldest fans can remember, and probably before that too.
There is, however, a principle that drives our sporting ethos, namely that you win the right to compete at the highest level on the field. We removed that with franchising, for reasons that seemed (at least to me) justifiable at the time. But I think they/I was wrong.
There is at least a workable compromise (see German football as an example) where licenses are granted to play in a certain league, based on certain criteria. P&R is, and remains, part of the game, however.
If we voted with Leeds in favour of the RFL proposals, then I'm glad. It may be turkeys voting for Christmas in our case, but on a matter of principle I think we did the right thing. (You have to ask yourself, in this situation, what's in it for Leeds to vote in favour too. They have nothing to gain from alienating themselves from the other SL clubs, and are highly unlikely to find themselves in a relegation battle any time in the near future.) |
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| Quote ="Theboyem"It sounds as though we have sided with Leeds in FAVOUR of the RFL's proposals and are the only two clubs that have come out in support. There's a surprise.'"
Without knowing how we voted, why would we? It’d be like Turkeys voting for Christmas.
I don’t understand the Leeds stance either – very odd. |
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| Quote ="Agent XIII"If we have sided with Leeds behind the RFL plan I fear we are no longer independent. Who represented us at Mondays meeting and if we did back the RFL plan why, it's like turkey's voting for Christmas.
I hope or expect this to be an incorrect assumption or family is more important than who pays the salary.'"
There is, of course, another reality, or two realities. One is the matter of principle, as I stated in my reply to Trinity, the other is that we know we're likely to take the drop, but we can come back again stronger (and soon), and that the door would remain open to us. To try and hack it as a SL club in our present circumstances may be beyond us at this point, but time (and investment) will tell. |
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The last time we were demoted it was not a quick return. My main concern is that once out of SL what's to stop them once again moving the goal posts. I have not forgotten what it was like being in the wilderness but don't get me wrong I support the RL family but not at the expense of the club.
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| Quote ="Agent XIII"The last time we were demoted it was not a quick return. My main concern is that once out of SL what's to stop them once again moving the goal posts. I have not forgotten what it was like being in the wilderness but don't get me wrong I support the RL family but not at the expense of the club.'"
I remember that too, and it's obviously a risk. But being the whipping boys of SL because we can't afford to compete is no alternative either, IMO.
My suggestion was that it [umight[/u be in the club's interests, in the short term, but that's only guesswork on my part. You can't detach the interests of the club from the interest of the game entirely. We need a competition in the broader sense that attracts fans across the board, first and foremost. |
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| Quote ="kinleycat"Be careful what you wish for - if it were to be the end of the RFL then SL (or son of SL) would be IMO a closed shop of 10 or so clubs with no p and r - and we wouldn't be in it.
Top level RL would be lost to this district because of short sighted greedy chairmen.
Im no fan of the buffoons at Red Hall , but this would be disastrous for our club, district and rugby playing youth.[/quot
That's how the lower divisions have felt for years. Not very nice is it. RFL-FAIL.
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| Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"
I don’t understand the Leeds stance either – very odd.'"
Could it just be goodwill or are there long term motives. Could we be slowly getting controlled by stealth and become another Hunslet ? |
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The problem with bringing youth, and their development, into this discussion is the amount of downright crap imports that we as a club have employed instead of playing our much vaunted youth. And why?
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Its a laughing stock .. we got no help from the R.F.L because they were hell bent on makeing sure crusaders were going to be in .
decisions that cost the game millions it was only the owners themselves that said enough no more S.L IN Wales which then allowed us to be in super league.
This was all predicated on the LEWIS PLAN for the game and each nation trying to put its own team together now the grants and suport dries up after the world cup so exspect many redunacies at Red Hall.
I fear the monies spent will not preduce the results and exspected in both income streams for the game,
and the England sides performance, as when you view the game in Oz they are light years away.
Now if reports are to believed we along with leeds suport the R.F.L.. well all i know is if the winner are the rest of the super league clubs then we will not have done ourseves any favours.
So after all this consultation and supose agreements ( you dont get to rubber stamping) unless you think it there. the goal post move again with all its uncertanties for everyone and the central body looking like puppets on a super league chairmans string.
How can anyone work with any certancy plan,invest,or even in some cases survive in the game as a whole
with such a bunch of self seeking idiots makeing some decisions? ( rubber stamping) more consutations? or in this case no decisions!
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| Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"Without knowing how we voted, why would we? It’d be like Turkeys voting for Christmas.
I don’t understand the Leeds stance either – very odd.'"
I agree completely but some press are reporting it as the case. Bad move in my opinion and it seems we are already in the Rhinos pockets. |
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| Quote ="Theboyem"I agree completely but some press are reporting it as the case. Bad move in my opinion and it seems we are already in the Rhinos pockets.'"
Why do you think that?
What benefit could there be to Leeds in siding with the RFL against the other SL clubs? It's not as if they won't be one of the top 10, or however many are desired in a new SL set-up. If they wanted us as a feeder club, surely the easiest way to achieve this would be by voting with the majority? I'm not getting at you, I just don't get it. |
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| Quote ="jack in the box"I disagree slightly. With the recent deal regarding the freezer plant we are much closer. The problem being is that the 106 agreement only provides £9M in funding.
We could therefore be very near to starting construction of a small stadium that could be developed and improved at a later date. However if you want to make sure all the funding is in place for a 12K stadium then yes you are correct this could be a while before sufficient financial resources are gathered.
With what was suggested last night I would prefer a start on a stadium to fit the £9M budget and then look to improve.'"
It's the freezer plant deal that has lead to me revising my time scale down to an optimistic 5 years, without that the area would have remained green and pleasant land for many, many years. There is a large shortfall even with it though and this will take time to fill unless a very wealthy person wants to sink a large amount of their own money into the project.
Building it in stages isn't feasible either really, the overall cost of building it piecemeal will be much higher and a smaller stadium with less facilities would not be financially viable to run in the meantime. It would end up like like Owl Lane stadium, part built for ever more, yet the rent for us would have to be higher to cover the upkeep as other planned income streams would be affected.
We also need to be in superleague for the financial forecasts to be acheivable, which make us supposedly siding with Leeds and supporting the RFL's proposals a little strange. With the best will in the world we are going to be in a major struggle next season and relegation would be a ground as well as a club killer. It's not just the turkeys voting for xmas, it's them basting themselves, lighting the oven and hopping in. |
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