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| Quote ="methley dreadcat"and I know raz wants to see more homegrown talent coming through.'"
I think every single Wakefield fan out there would agree 100% with that!
Things have already been set up and a lot of hard work in the last year or so has gone on to try and go that way in the future.....
Two huge things need to happen this season first though to continue that good work on.....
1) Survival at all costs.....if that means a few overseas playing ahead of homegrown then so be it....
2) Back the club on the terraces.......No good stopping supporting the team if a young lad is dropped for another player....if fans cant appreciate the direction the club has taken in the last 6 months or so then what is the point??
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| The problem is "survival at all costs" will be this year and next year and the year after that and so on.
Its certainly not an easy road and i don't know the answer to points raised in this thread.
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| That looks a strong and exciting squad.... Wish I could see the game!
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| I think the majority are agreed on this, survival, survival, survival etc... I'm sure a lot of us cut our teeth watching Bell, Thompson & Conway, but times have changed. It is imperative we remain in super league & there is a lot of money on the table next year onwards. Which at a well run club & MC/KH appear to be more than capable, could we directed towards a well run youth set up. Got to be in super league though
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| Not so called star youngsters Upton, a star team that had proved themselves the best u 18s in the country, then it was up to a good coach to do something with them ,pick out lads that could be turned into star players,that's what such as wane does at Wigan, if you think developing young players is giving them short spells out of position in a weakened side against against top teams,taking em off slightest mistake or dropping them until we have another difficult game to give and I quote you our so called stars a rest you haven't in my opinion got a clue
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| And yet ironically Wane says he will drop Bateman whether he plays well or not.
No one seems to criticise him for it.
We have a good squad. We had a thread recently showing how good the second string is (for a second string)
We are using that squad this week. Simple as that.
I like Wildie on the bench but it's not like the team is weaker.
I'm looking forward to the game.
Sts should still be favourites but it's a good chance for us.
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| If you read the reason he said he wouldn't play him all the time it was to protect him and not over play him but you should know the points I was making nothing like what your trying to say but I guess pop tart your not interested if someone is critical of the club
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| Try scorer - I fully respect your opinion, you're not everyone's cup of tea on here but I do respect what you have to say....you're clearly passionate and speak from the heart about the youth and have undoubted knowledge and experience in that field....
I watched a lot of that academy winning side, home and away....probably about 75% (if not more of the matches that season) they were a superbly coached side....well drilled, played as a unit....ground down the opposition in a lot of games and took teams apart 2nd half....just like the best teams do.....there was no apparent weakness.....great going forward with ball in hand and an excellent all round defensive unit....
We may well have missed a trick not having 6 or 7 of that team now strutting their stuff in the team.....we would all love to see that I'm sure.....as a team who has mainly struggled in our time in Super League you have to concede it's much harder for a club like us, than one like Wigan to nurture the young talent through to first grade......I've seen you say before about a game where Tom Harrington made absolute mincemeat of Kallum Watkins.....Harrington was a superb strike player in that side, big, strong and athletic....mainly used from the bench if I remember correctly? Where is Tom now though, because that game means nothing now....Kallum Watkins is arguably the most exciting young centre in the competition and a certainty for a long GB career......Cain Southernwood, Will Colleran, Danny Cowling, Adam Slater, etc...etc.....where are they now....all excellent in that side but looking nowhere near Super League players now....
What really winds me up at present though is people coming on here saying they wont support the team anymore because of things that have happened years ago......it's a nonsense if you ask me.....Agar will give youngsters a chance....unfortunately this year more than most he is under pressure to get results.....the new regime have already been on record as saying they would love nothing more than to be playing out of Newmarket with a side packed full of local talent.....some small steps have already been taken by trying to get the better youngsters to sign....hopefully we can learn from mistakes in the past....people taking their bat and ball home and turning their back on the club will only hold us back even more though....
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| Quote ="The Clan"go and watch the U16s tomorrow Vs St Helens, Win, Lose or Draw they'll show you that some of our youngsters have real quality and some of those on show tomorrow will be U15s.
Think about Max Jowitt, Jordy Crowther, Harry Swann and a few others from the U19s but are actually U17s and you'll see that there is some quality coming through'"
Well, let's hope the 3 above show more than Walshaw, Wildie and Trout have when they break into the first team. None of our youngsters over the past 3 years have, in my opinion, being good enough for Super League. Maybe Walshaw could do with more of a chance in the centres but he is well down the pecking order at second row. I don't doubt we have youth players who are outstanding at U16s e.t.c My point was they seem to stagnate at 18, 19 onwards. Look at the likes of Ryan Hampshire, Lomax, Lineham, Burgess, they've all broken into their respective first teams this season and it is already clear (and probably was beforehand) that they were super league material. None of our boys have come close to showing that.
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| Quote ="try scorer"Not so called star youngsters Upton, a star team that had proved themselves the best u 18s in the country, then it was up to a good coach to do something with them ,pick out lads that could be turned into star players,that's what such as wane does at Wigan, if you think developing young players is giving them short spells out of position in a weakened side against against top teams,taking em off slightest mistake or dropping them until we have another difficult game to give and I quote you our so called stars a rest you haven't in my opinion got a clue'"
I think you're aiming your criticism in the wrong direction, it was John Kear who had the opportunity of blooding the youngsters from the Grand Final winning team not Agar. Under JKs watch the lads from the U18s lost ground on their peers mainlydue to lack of any kind of infrastructure to help the lads develop further.
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| I agree entirely that kears regime failed that team but the point I'm making is that some of these lads have been around under our present coach and his use of cowling, walshaw and wildie for example gives me the opinion that the easy option of second rate Aussies and other teams cast offs would still be to the fore
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| Quote ="try scorer"If you read the reason he said he wouldn't play him all the time it was to protect him and not over play you should know the points I was making nothing like what your trying to say but I guess pop tart your not interested if someone is critical of the club'"
I didn't say that at all.
You've convinced me about your under 18s team. They were good and not developed.
I just don't know who is to blame and don't blindly believe as it's gone now.
The subject we are talking about is Wildie. Maybe Agar is simply rotating options or resting Wildie.
It doesn't have to be a conspiracy or that Agar hates playing local players.
Some people are looking for a problem when there isn't one. So I just used Bateman as an example.
As an alternate does McDermott get grief for sending Sutcliffe to Bradford.
In my opinion he will be better than McGuire but right now he prefers McGuire.
That's just the way sporting teams go.
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| The current crop of youth players are the ones to judge the new regime by; if in seasons to come we see them graduate into regular 1st team players like youngsters at Wigan and Leeds are doing this year, then we'll know that the production line has finally started to work.
For now, thanks to the youth side of the club being ignored by John Kear for many years, Agar has very little to work with; he's doing his best to turn the likes of Trout, Walshaw and Wildie into SL players, but it's an uphill struggle - in a season that could end with relegation, none of them are good enough to get a regular start. And if he persevered and started them anyway, he'd be lynched on here for playing fast and loose with our SL future.
By all means support the development of home grown players, but be realistic about the timescales involved; dummy spitting because Agar is not growing SL players in holes in the ground like Saruman with his Uruk-Hai, is a bit childish.
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| Nobody at least not me is dummy spitting matey I'm talking in facts what I see with my eyes and they tell me that mat Ryan is no better than what we had,I'm not at the moment getting carried away with godinet hero worshipped by some on here for his performances against 2teams at the moment much worse than us id sooner judge him till proved differently maybe tomorrow will be that day on his display against Bradford when some of his passing was very poor,Anderson I like a straight up and down no nonsense prop and sammutt of course is a off the cuff match winner that's my view not dummy spitting just different to yours
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| Quote ="try scorer"Nobody at least not me is dummy spitting matey I'm talking in facts what I see with my eyes and they tell me that mat Ryan is no better than what we had,I'm not at the moment getting carried away with godinet hero worshipped by some on here for his performances against 2teams at the moment much worse than us id sooner judge him till proved differently maybe tomorrow will be that day on his display against Bradford when some of his passing was very poor,Anderson I like a straight up and down no nonsense prop and sammutt of course is a off the cuff match winner that's my view not dummy spitting just different to yours'"
here we go….
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| Quote ="try scorer"Nobody at least not me is dummy spitting matey I'm talking in facts what I see with my eyes and they tell me that mat Ryan[u is no better than what we had[/u,I'm not at the moment getting carried away with godinet hero worshipped by some on here for his performances against 2teams at the moment much worse than us id sooner judge him till proved differently maybe tomorrow will be that day on his display against Bradford when some of his passing was very poor,Anderson I like a straight up and down no nonsense prop and sammutt of course is a off the cuff match winner that's my view not dummy spitting just different to yours'"
Exactly mate, we did have. We don't have them anymore move on.
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| Quote ="try scorer"mat Ryan is no better than what we had'"
I don't agree; he's an unspectacular player I'll give you that, but he is seasoned, tough and experienced - the opposite of the players you're advocating should be used in his place.
I think you need to get over this obsession with a group of young players who for various reasons, have not matured into the SL superstars you might have hoped they would; that ship has sailed and whilst Agar is doing his best with the ones that still have some promise, they aren't regular first teamers yet - unless you're working on a time machine in your shed, there's nothing that can be done about that now. What we can do though, is keep paying in to 1873 and trust that the new youth set-up is as promising as those in the know tell us it is. If it is, we'll see some pay-off in the coming 2-3 seasons.
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| Quote ="try scorer"Nobody at least not me is dummy spitting matey I'm talking in facts what I see with my eyes and they tell me that mat Ryan is no better than what we had,I'm not at the moment getting carried away with godinet hero worshipped by some on here for his performances against 2teams at the moment much worse than us id sooner judge him till proved differently maybe tomorrow will be that day on his display against Bradford when some of his passing was very poor,Anderson I like a straight up and down no nonsense prop and sammutt of course is a off the cuff match winner that's my view not dummy spitting just different to yours'"
So you are not judging Godinet over a handful of games (perhaps because he is doing relatively well), but you have made your mind up over Ryan over that same period?
I feel that you need to have a much more open mind when it comes to assessing players, wherever they are from.
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| Im with try scorer on Matt Ryan he doesnt look to offer anything that we couldnt have picked up from the championship, i know its early but there has been no sign of anything yet.
Apart from that i think the board, players and coaching staff have done a brilliant job so far and i for one am going to leave it up to them, yes we have played two poor teams but we are one of those lesser fancied teams, staying up is the priority even if we beat saints we are still probably the 3rd worst team in the league so stop getting carried away.
Leave the decisions about the club to those that have the power to do so, i know some of you like to have your saybut apart from passing five or ten mins of your time i dont see the point in constantly having a go at the club.
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| Quote ="PHe"So you are not judging Godinet over a handful of games (perhaps because he is doing relatively well), but you have made your mind up over Ryan over that same period?
I feel that you need to have a much more open mind when it comes to assessing players, wherever they are from.'"
Thought that myself, yet Agar is expected to keep giving Wildie (substitute for which ever player is being obsessed about) a chance after 20+ SL games in which he's shown no more promise than Ryan in 5 and way less than Godinet in 5.
I'm all for giving the Academy lads a chance but surely anyone can see Godinet has played ver well in 4 from 5 - the only player from the "try scorer" youth who I can think of who has had anything close to than impact is Anakin - the others like it or not are nowhere near.
If Harry plays and he's gash then I would expect to see him get another chance and then if he isn't the real deal Wildie gets his spot back. However for now any NRL contracted player haas to be considered as better than a fringe player at a SL club and Agar would be committing a serious dereliction of his duty if he didn't at least try him out - surely that is obvious.
Where it would be wrong is if he persisted with a rubbish Aussie and ignored a better British player - but we don't know that do we.
If Harry ends up being another Aussie gem then my message to Wildie is watch, learn and become as good - isn't that how its always worked.
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| Quote ="fullofhope"Im with try scorer on Matt Ryan he doesnt look to offer anything that we couldnt have picked up from the championship, i know its early but there has been no sign of anything yet.
Apart from that i think the board, players and coaching staff have done a brilliant job so far and i for one am going to leave it up to them, yes we have played two poor teams but we are one of those lesser fancied teams, staying up is the priority even if we beat saints we are still probably the 3rd worst team in the league so stop getting carried away.
Leave the decisions about the club to those that have the power to do so, i know some of you like to have your saybut apart from passing five or ten mins of your time i dont see the point in constantly having a go at the club.'"
You seriously believe that.
I don't know how many people are aware of this but it's actually quite hard to tempt Championship players into SL, people make it sound so easy.
So assuming there are any players in the Championship as good as Ryan (and in my opinion there aren't) the problems are….
Players in the lower divisions often have full time jobs/careers that pay well. They are also usually in there mid 20's and probably no longer wish to take risks with a short term contract and a lesser wage.
If they are as good as you seem to think they are probably on a very good screw at their clubs - combine this with their wages outside the game and some (not all) can be on well over 30k even 40k + - so where is the incentive.
No sane SL club will offer an untried Championship player more than a 1 maybe 2 year contract at most and a wage to match the risk. OK for young players maybe but not the seasoned semi pro's you probably mean.
Hence not many players from the championship are available.
On the flip side the NRL has legions of well proven players like Ryan who are relatively cheap and far less of a risk.
If you look at it the failure rate of overseas players we have signed has been relatively low. The last one was that big fat prop (?) JK signed and before that Peterson IMHO so the risks are fairly low. Maybe it's not morally right but it's reality.
So for me a championship player is not an option unless he is exceptional in which case he'd probably be Salford bound.
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| The problem is Wildie has played the last 2 games and we have had big wins now add the fact we have Seijka come over.Wildie misses out on the 19 and Seijka gets in the 19 now it looks like Wildie is out of favour even if he was suffering a knock or had been ill.Now if Agar brings Seijka on after 10-15 mins and he plays half back with Sammut and it kills us in the halfs then Agar will get some stick.If it goes the other way and everthing clicks and we have a brilliant game Agar will be the best thing since sliced bread.
Who would be a coach ?
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| I bet the team are glad that fullofhope is not their motivational coach.
I would remind him that Ryan was a regular in the NRL. We are therefore not only looking for a player from the championship who is good enough to play in both the SL and NRL. I wait your suggestions with interest.
I also expect that our new signing could become the next Isac Johns with some of our supporters who believe he is stopping a local player getting into the team. The first time he does something wrong the amount of criticism he will face could be of rabid proportions. I would remind those that continued to criticise johns look where he is now so maybe we should give Harry a chance before you go over the top in your criticism.
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| Quote ="les-goose"The problem is Wildie has played the last 2 games and we have had big wins now add the fact we have Seijka come over.Wildie misses out on the 19 and Seijka gets in the 19 now it looks like Wildie is out of favour even if he was suffering a knock or had been ill.Now if Agar brings Seijka on after 10-15 mins and he plays half back with Sammut and it kills us in the halfs then Agar will get some stick.If it goes the other way and everthing clicks and we have a brilliant game Agar will be the best thing since sliced bread.
Who would be a coach ?'"
Not me.
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| Come on Wakey this could be a massive 2 points and a real boost for the lads and fans
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