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| Quote ="Agent XIII"You can PM me if you want but you have already stated that what you have is hearsay.
With regards your fellow moderator I will withhold my praise for MC and the board because it is not difficult to reduce a debt by selling players and reducing the wages. I believe that all companies do the same however for a rugby club it effects their likely survival especially when the same board votes to have two clubs relegated.
It was the right decision to hand the club on but once again you forget that MC held 40% of the shares and was the accountant for the first 12 months of their reign.
Ted got us into and kept us in SL despite his failings, I am certain he would never have gone along with the RFL if it jeopardised our place in SL.
In conclusion I can see both sides it just that currently I don't have any information to suggest that one knows how to keep us in the top flight. When I think they do I will acknowledge it.'"
How do you know MC held 40% of the shares. If he did who owned the other 60% ? As for Ted anything he did isn't worth mentioning in a positive way.
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| Quote ="Agent XIII"You can PM me if you want but you have already stated that what you have is hearsay.
With regards your fellow moderator I will withhold my praise for MC and the board because it is not difficult to reduce a debt by selling players and reducing the wages. I believe that all companies do the same however for a rugby club it effects their likely survival especially when the same board votes to have two clubs relegated.
It was the right decision to hand the club on but once again you forget that MC held 40% of the shares and was the accountant for the first 12 months of their reign.
Ted got us into and kept us in SL despite his failings, I am certain he would never have gone along with the RFL if it jeopardised our place in SL.
In conclusion I can see both sides it just that currently I don't have any information to suggest that one knows how to keep us in the top flight. When I think they do I will acknowledge it.'"
If you want to hold back your praise that's fine, however until MC has done something wrong why can't you hold back your criticism?
The sadness about all this is you are not a supporter of this club as much as you are of its previous two owners, I wonder why?
You sidestepped the questions again I see?
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| Quote ="Agent XIII"You can PM me if you want but you have already stated that what you have is hearsay.
With regards your fellow moderator I will withhold my praise for MC and the board because it is not difficult to reduce a debt by selling players and reducing the wages. I believe that all companies do the same however for a rugby club it effects their likely survival especially when the same board votes to have two clubs relegated.
It was the right decision to hand the club on but once again you forget that MC held 40% of the shares and was the accountant for the first 12 months of their reign.
Ted got us into and kept us in SL despite his failings, I am certain he would never have gone along with the RFL if it jeopardised our place in SL.
In conclusion I can see both sides it just that currently I don't have any information to suggest that one knows how to keep us in the top flight. When I think they do I will acknowledge it.'"
Having watched you dig a bigger hole this last week or so, it's now time to update your information.
I never owned 40%. I originally owned 5. And did the books on a part time basis, but was not an employee nor was I a director until the 29th august when AG transferred his shareholding to me plus agreed in a signed document to write his loan off. Now I've just checked my share transfer document to check I didn't actually dream it.
As for the 'fit and proper person ' test, I passed that at the same time I became a director, and the rfl ratified the change of ownership.
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| Quote ="Daddycool"Having watched you dig a bigger hole this last week or so, it's now time to update your information.
I never owned 40%. I originally owned 5. And did the books on a part time basis, but was not an employee nor was I a director until the 29th august when AG transferred his shareholding to me plus agreed in a signed document to write his loan off. Now I've just checked my share transfer document to check I didn't actually dream it.
As for the 'fit and proper person ' test, I passed that at the same time I became a director, and the rfl ratified the change of ownership.[/quot
Oops!!! Agent XIII you really are in the know aren't you.
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| Quote ="Agent XIII"You can PM me if you want but you have already stated that what you have is hearsay.
With regards your fellow moderator I will withhold my praise for MC and the board because it is not difficult to reduce a debt by selling players and reducing the wages. I believe that all companies do the same however for a rugby club it effects their likely survival especially when the same board votes to have two clubs relegated.
It was the right decision to hand the club on but once again you forget that MC held 40% of the shares and was the accountant for the first 12 months of their reign.
Ted got us into and kept us in SL despite his failings, I am certain he would never have gone along with the RFL if it jeopardised our place in SL.
In conclusion I can see both sides it just that currently I don't have any information to suggest that one knows how to keep us in the top flight. When I think they do I will acknowledge it.'"
Cant you see that, like it or not, MC has prevented our club going into admin and instant relegation to the Championship.
Yes, Ted & Co kept the club afloat for many years and probably juggled things exceptionally well for some time.
MC has gone about things differently and has made a determined effort to clear a large amount of inherited debt.
Is this the right thing to do for the club ?, absolutely.
IF things go well with regard to new signings, these actions could be a master stroke - shedding some overpaid players and achieving transfer fees in a depressed market is no mean feat and IF we can maintain our SL status, his stock will rise exponentially.
Most of the clubs supporters have got behind the guy and are trying to "do their bit", while others, seem desperate for him to fail and quite frankly, these people are not supporting the club.
There is a simple choice.
Back Wakefield Trinity or don't, it's a personal choice, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.
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| Don't expect that to shut him up Daddycool.
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| My offer is still open Agent, i'll happily back up the hearsay at the next meeting.
Its good to talk.
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| Quote ="Agent XIII"No it does not take a genius to know that if MC had bought AG out he or whoever would need to be approved by the RFL much like Bradford. This is not a sign of genius but an understanding of how the RL works which I would think you would know.'"
Genius, i think not
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| You should right a book Ji......I mean agent 13 "Things you wished you never said"
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| Quote ="Agent XIII"You can PM me if you want but you have already stated that what you have is hearsay.
With regards your fellow moderator I will withhold my praise for MC and the board because it is not difficult to reduce a debt by selling players and reducing the wages. I believe that all companies do the same however for a rugby club it effects their likely survival especially when the same board votes to have two clubs relegated.
It was the right decision to hand the club on but once again you forget that MC held 40% of the shares and was the accountant for the first 12 months of their reign.
Ted got us into and kept us in SL despite his failings, I am certain he would never have gone along with the RFL if it jeopardised our place in SL.
In conclusion I can see both sides it just that currently I don't have any information to suggest that one knows how to keep us in the top flight. When I think they do I will acknowledge it.'"
I just fail to see the alternative to selling players (for transfer fees mostly which RL rarely has these days) and reducing the wage bill which was way way too high. Nobody has come forward to put money into the club, which MC continually asks for investment, and the club has reduced the debt massively and now might be able to go forward not backwards! We will struggle next year BUT we will still have a club to FIGHT for, Without MC and co, I dont believe we would have. You can keep questioning MC but he seems to have the facts which show there is no alternative (unfortunatly) to the actions he is taking, whatever it can be percieved by the greater 'good'..
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| Can someone ban Alf..er sorry I mean Agent 13 now please
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| I´ve been as sad as anyone about SOME of the player departures but I have never felt so confident that we now have a guy at the helm who is running the club as it should be.
He has mytotal backing.
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| Quote ="Daddycool"Having watched you dig a bigger hole this last week or so, it's now time to update your information.
I never owned 40%. I originally owned 5. And did the books on a part time basis, but was not an employee nor was I a director until the 29th august when AG transferred his shareholding to me plus agreed in a signed document to write his loan off. Now I've just checked my share transfer document to check I didn't actually dream it.
As for the 'fit and proper person ' test, I passed that at the same time I became a director, and the rfl ratified the change of ownership.'"
Whoa.... Hang on a daw gone cotton picking minute... There Muskrat...
In my humble opinion, even doing the accounts part time (as if that statement absolves the responsibility) any professional worth their salt would have been making rapid interventions...
Hell... I trust accountants as much as I trust a kid in a candy factory! I have said before... You are all the club has... And that scares the poop out of me!
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| I hope he has the facts if he didn't he would be in the wrong place. If AG transferred his shares and agreed to write off his debt then that is fair play to him however i do remember you saying that you were looking to buy him out, I guess things must have changed.
This means therefore that you are free to take any actions you feel without the fear that the club will be pulled from under you. I still state that based on your current record you have sold or released a large number of players from the first team squad and signed one. I will therefore not be hanging out the bunting quite yet until you and your board members have assembled your squad so that I and looking at the ST counter a large number of supporters can access how well you are doing.
Your optimism for next season does not exactly fill me with confidence nor do I understand your stance regarding the restructure.
I see your band of brothers/sisters are looking to banish any dissenting views from the forum, I guess it is so that everything they read will paint a glorious picture for the future. A forum is exactly that a place for discussion both good and bad and to try to banish one side is just dictatorship.
I have a specific question for our chairman on the shirt night will you be able to buy and collect on the night or just order for delivery at some time in the future.
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| Quote ="Agent XIII"I hope he has the facts if he didn't he would be in the wrong place. If AG transferred his shares and agreed to write off his debt then that is fair play to him however i do remember you saying that you were looking to buy him out, I guess things must have changed.
This means therefore that you are free to take any actions you feel without the fear that the club will be pulled from under you. I still state that based on your current record you have sold or released a large number of players from the first team squad and signed one. I will therefore not be hanging out the bunting quite yet until you and your board members have assembled your squad so that I and looking at the ST counter a large number of supporters can access how well you are doing.
Your optimism for next season does not exactly fill me with confidence nor do I understand your stance regarding the restructure.
I see your band of brothers/sisters are looking to banish any dissenting views from the forum, I guess it is so that everything they read will paint a glorious picture for the future. A forum is exactly that a place for discussion both good and bad and to try to banish one side is just dictatorship.
I have a specific question for our chairman on the shirt night will you be able to buy and collect on the night or just order for delivery at some time in the future.'"
You and your brother and sister are thankfully in the minority.
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| Quote ="Agent XIII"Snip.'"
Please do nt associate my comments and thoughts with the railings of a madman...
To contextualise I have some senior finance people in my team and I take their professional advice very seriously... And the are able to temper the strategic and investment decisions we need to make... They are, however, no where near at the time we make the decision, there are other criteria which take precedence once the financial constraints are understood and managed.
In my decades of experience I have not met an accountant who is able to act outside their professional constraint... It's not in ther training, personality profile or experience... Carter may well be the person to wrest control... But the person to create a vibrant and visionary future.... I think not... The club needs to attract that type of character... Carter and glover together would have been powerful... One type without the other? Chaos!
We have gone from one extreme to the other...and neither will work by themselves.
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| I regret you may think of me as a madman which of course I am not but your views are in many ways similar to me. I have never known an accountant running a business not even an accountancy business so welcome to bedlam fellow inmate.
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| Not sure how a qualified accoutant can say doing books on a part time basis absolves anybody from the this mess.
What was needed was a stucture exsplained so that investmenr could be attacted
will other directors loans be written off ?
recapitalisation should take place so that moving the cash flow problem down the line and just selling players isnt the only self defeating option
No general call for capital investmest and the structure that either individual or trust could invest in has been anounced.
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| what you have witnessed is astute costcutting painfull but nessesary,if you run this club as it should be and hopefully with some investment ,it will reach its true potential.like it did in the 1960s.
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| Quote ="factsareus"Not sure how a qualified accoutant can say doing books on a part time basis absolves anybody from the this mess.
What was needed was a stucture exsplained so that investmenr could be attacted
will other directors loans be written off ?
recapitalisation should take place so that moving the cash flow problem down the line and just selling players isnt the only self defeating option
No general call for capital investmest and the structure that either individual or trust could invest in has been anounced.'"
Funny how lack of facts can spoil a good story. Like others I don't buy I only did the books MC. I was not a Director nor employed sounds like "not my fault guv". As said facts spoil a good story or can be shielded by blind faith.
The facts known are negative - players having to be sold, Ticket sales not what we need and we still some finance issues. So that's alright then?
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| Quote ="herewego"Funny how lack of facts can spoil a good story. Like others I don't buy I only did the books MC. I was not a Director nor employed sounds like "not my fault guv". As said facts spoil a good story or can be shielded by blind faith.
The facts known are negative - players having to be sold, Ticket sales not what we need and we still some finance issues. So that's alright then?'"
Posting after a night on the sauce is never good. Especially when it's your first post.
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| Quote ="Mable_Syrup"Quote ="herewego"Funny how lack of facts can spoil a good story. Like others I don't buy I only did the books MC. I was not a Director nor employed sounds like "not my fault guv". As said facts spoil a good story or can be shielded by blind faith.
The facts known are negative - players having to be sold, Ticket sales not what we need and we still some finance issues. So that's alright then?'"
Posting after a night on the sauce is never good. Especially when it's your first post.'"
Well what an informed response. Not felt the need to post before and you have just evidenced why it's really not worth bothering. Keep the faith - blind or otherwise - as you seem to have nothing useful to say you may wish to return to your own sauce.
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| Ha. All I ask is to be coherent in your posts. Read my other posts. I have some quite good things to say and the best thing is that people don't need an enigma machine to understand them.
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| Quote ="Agent XIII"I regret you may think of me as a madman which of course I am not but your views are in many ways similar to me. I have never known an accountant running a business not even an accountancy business so welcome to bedlam fellow inmate.'"
I mean you no insult but you do need to change your tack... Genuinely you are increasingly incoherent... And disconnected.... And a little one eyed.
I remember having long chats with old Ted... And talked long about other investment, and more people sharing his control.... But he was not interested really... This was his club... And the only time he trusted someone to join in (Pearman) it ended in disaster, and he was never going to give control away again
AG should have had a steadying hand alongside... Instead he had Elston.
Now we have a new owner who exhibits a completely different ethos to all previous incumbents...
The club needs to creat a vision for the people of Wakefield to buy into... One which portrays a conservative and prudent financial agenda, but that is the only evidence of prudence and conservatism... Everything else is about customer, sales, excitement, positive... If we don't ave those attributes then hanging out for Newmarket will be pointless.
Glover had the external face right on the button... Carter has the internal face absolutely right...
Hence my previous point, if it could ave been done... together they would have been powerful.
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| Quote ="Daddycool"[uAs for the 'fit and proper person ' test, I passed that[/u at the same time I became a director, and the rfl ratified the change of ownership.'"
So did Glover, so that means nothing.
What's with this "paper trail" thing that I keep hearing about, Michael? Some tax evasion game? How can a 400K shortfall after doing the books become a 600K shortfall?
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