Some interesting points there!
I know only one person who has had the virus and thankfully beat it.
I know of two others who were elderly and had other serious conditions, prior to the outbreak of Corona Virus and were hospitalised with them. They then caught the virus and that was shown as the cause of death, although the other conditions were serious ones!
I also believe that for a pandemic, the death rate, in countries who don't tell lies anyway, are relatively low.
It does make you wander if there is more to this?!

How very forgiving ?

We have been told for 3 months +, that 2 metres (compared to 1) will halve the risk of becoming infected, which means that reducing to 1 metre doubles the risk.
I fully understand the need to try and return to something approaching "normal". However, we have also been told that the decisions made thus far are not political and that "we are following the science" and the changes now being advocated are little to do with "the science" ad are purely political - The Government cant have it both ways.

Also, regarding the app - yes, the take up has to be pretty high for it to be effective but, it would also have to work.
Despite the "WORLD BEATING" test and trace system supposedly being rolled out from 1st June, it is nowhere near because The Government didn't back the right horse.
The Donkey that they chose simply did not work but, we have had lie upon lie to cover their mistake.

You suggest that the test and trace is no longer imperative but, this is simply because we dont have a system that works. Nothing to do with it not being needed, in fact the contrary is true but, those in chare weren't up to the job, again.

Forgiving ?
No,not really,like the many others i acknowledge that mistakes have been made and IMHO serious misjudgements(notably not getting rid of Cummings) and the current two week quarantine for UK arrivals (totally pointless).
Have lies been told to cover mistakes - probably,but lies and government/politicans go hand in glove no matter which political party it is,i think Tony Blair probably holds the record for the biggest fib in modern history.
Problem is that everyone on the left just wants to jump up and down shouting "lie,lie,lie" everyone on the right wants to defend.Personally i think the government are doing the best they can,but I'm not really sure there is anything to measure it against at the moment (maybe in 12/18 months).
TBH its all getting very boring,just political point scoring,how many times I've read on here that Boris has a track record of telling lies,yet in December by an overwhelming majority the country voted for the Tories.

I work with mobile apps all the time.
Having something not work on Apple environment is not a strange thing at all. It isn't just a matter of popping it on the ipad.
I completely understand why that deployment hasn't been perfect.

Cant argue with the last bit, which shows just how bad Corbyn was, possibly worse than Foot for being an electable leader.
Putting aside, Blair taking us to war in the middle east (a price for being the a Yankie puppet), the willingness of Johnson & Co to mislead the public, with such alarming regularity is something quite new and his failure to deliver on ANYTHING (apart from wild exaggerations) unacceptable for a leader of the country

The impact that Blair's Iraq catastrophe has had ripples across the years and across a myriad of issues. Such a gigantic asset for people from the centre-ground and the left alike has been nullified by that one thing. Without Iraq he would have been a hugely influential and respected figure in the EU debate and in general elections. I tend to think that he might have even saved his legacy if he'd shown a shred of remorse for Iraq. But in that respect he's a bit of a zealot who remains adamant it was the "right thing" to do.

I know elements of the socialist left will always have ideological issues with Blairism such as PFI etc but without Iraq their mistrust is blunted a bit.

Blair’s involvements in the Middle East countries are still having repercussions today, as recently as 3 days ago, in a town just west of London. Blair’s never apologised to anyone, for taking the UK to wars in that part of the world.

Yes I accept your point and I understand the limitations of all reported date. But when we have nothing else to go off I have to rely on something reported as a fact by various health organisations, much better to analyse the data published than trust the man down at the local pub, politicians, modellers or the MSM. I actually think we might agree on this crisis; this whole COVID response is clearly an overreaction.

Here's some more data for us to get to grips with the reality of the success and failures for those under 50/60 and the BAME group.

+ ONS data (UK - all settings) shows up to to the week ending 12 June the under 50s accounted for 959 of the total deaths (48,21icon_cool.gif. This is inclusive of positive and suspected cases even if the test failed to produce a positive result. The under 50s as a percentage therefore equates to 1.98% of those that sadly passed away.

+ NHS England data reported up until 16 June shows of those under the age of 60 (couldn't locate the under 50s) the number of people that died in hospitals in England with no pre-existing health condition was 297. We then need to consider the total hospital deaths in England for the under 60s group was 2,416. This equates to 12.29% of those that passed away with no pre-existing health condition under 60.

+ The NHS England data also shows up until 16 June the number of patients that died in English hospitals that were known to be of "White ethnicity" was 21,487. In comparison the known "BAME group" made up 3,747 of the total deaths. As a percentage of the deaths by ethnicity grouping (excludes not stated) is 85% = "white ethnicity" / 15% = "BAME group". As a percentage split across the current population in England, reports estimate the split of ethnicity of those residing here is exactly the same match 85% - white / 15% BAME. Even the ONS (All UK settings) states "Of the deaths involving COVID-19 that occurred between 2 March and 15 May 2020, 88.6% were among those of White ethnic background." That's 33,630 were of a white ethnicity out of 37,956 for the total deaths registered with COVID. Yet the mainstream media sources like the Guardian, BBC etc shout from the roof tops about the virus disproportionally killing people from the BAME group.

The data tells me the media is blatantly lying to push an agenda. Questions are what on earth is going on behind the scenes and what vision do the political leaders have for us as a society?

Watching snippets from today’s PMQ’s you’d think Starmer was the PM the amount of questions he gets.

Also, when did misleading the House stop being a very serious matter? Johnson has been doing it for a fair few weeks now.

Starmer is as much use as a chocolate fireguard another Labour leader with leader being used in the loosest sense.

Boris charisma yes to some degree buffoonery absolutely there is not much to choose amongst the lot of them. I am not part of the hindsight police but I absolutely over the moon that the previous PM is not in charge likewise the the front bench of the former labour team Boris is the best of a bad bunch. The chancellor however is definitely a fella for the future I like him.

Thank God one brave lady had the nous to sue your hero Matt Hancock for the death of her father owing to his policy of discharging Covid victims int o a care home. I hope others who lost relatives because of this governments bungling cock ups have the wherefore to do the same. All success to her.

How dare you insinuate that Hancock is my hero I have lost my father in law in care home in Wakefield to Covid your post absolutely offends me you need to consider your comments before hitting send.

As for her legal action good luck if it works but I do not think it will because there is a massive lack of control of entry and exits at care home for staff and supplies the number of residents visiting hospitals for appointments and authorities conducting visits makes it almost impossible to prove that discharging patients to care homes has caused the spread you suggest.

My comments were about the leaders of the parties I don't vote Tory so don't preach to me things you obviously make massive assumptions about!

He said Chancellor didn't he? Rishi Sunak.

Sincere apologies RWB, I got my ministers mixed up. I mistook the Health Sec for the Chancellor. Extremely sorry to hear of your father-in-law.

No worries Redscat apology accepted the Chancellor is Rishi Sunak I think he comes across as a caring fella if there is such a politician

No hards feelings mate

Many thanks for that RWB. as you say a little more time spent before pressing "send" can avoid a lot of hurt.




Much as I see most present day Tory ministers as some sort of alien life form, I must admit that Rishi does appear to have a somewhat caring side to him, but it's amazing how many can be taken in by a smart suit and fake smile.

Totally agree but sometimes you get that gut feeling that someone is pretty genuine I get that with him and also Sajid Javed the previous chancellor he clearly has his standards and integrity and wS having none of it when Boris was believed to be taking over the treasury

TBF at least with Starmer he turns up having done his research. Boris is like the kid In the class who always leaves stuff to last minute and tries to blag his way through a presentation, only for the teacher to call him out on several mistakes.

Early days with Starmer, he seems to be making the right noises (for myself anyway). Again with Sunak, it’s early days and he seems to be more “human” than the rest of the Tories that’s for sure.

Every week there’s a different scandal with this Government and the country is paying for it in different ways. Look at how Brexit is going, and how much money it’s going to cost - might as well have stayed in the EU.

In Fawlty Towers style, dont mention Brexit



Sunak does seem ok at the moment but, he hasn't had to do any of the difficult stuff yet.
All he has done so far is to say some nice words and spend, spend, spend but, at some point quite soon, he will have to come up with a budget to start to pay down some of the eye watering levels of borrowing - he wont be quite so popular then.

Just seen MP’s have voted against routine testing for NHS workers and care workers. 344 to 198. If this doesn’t prove that this set of Tories are scum I don’t know what will.

Crikey it was nothing else but a political stunt Ashworth was trying to pull.
In his speech he actually said - weekly testing where necessary!
Effectively where necessary is what they already do.

Any political comment to make about the young lady Rebecca Long Bailey - the one that finished second in race to become Labour leader ?

So is that the Tories 344 the rest 198?, not a fan of politics by any stretch but there has been some interesting points made although not by you unfortunately, you've made quite a few posts on this thread and not one has been constructive just bile against the Government, why not give it a rest and save yourself further embarrassment by showing your obvious lack of intelligence not forgetting your bitterness which comes across in abundance.

Hardly. They should get tested at least twice a week which they arent. Have they matched the “100,000” daily tests they promised? Don’t forget this is the same party who voted against NHS pay rise as well. What do you think to Helen Whatley’s veiws on student nurses?

As for RLB - she’s been sacked for sharing an article deemed to be anti-Semitic from a party dealing with anti-semitism - at least one party leader has the balls to sack a party member brining controversy (not unlike Johnson with Cummings).

I’ve always maintained I’d be equally disappointed and peed off if any other Government had reacted to COVID the way the Tories have handled it.

It was quite clear to see that when Italy went into lockdown we should’ve done too - instead we went ahead with champions league football matches and Cheltenham; people still flying in and out of the country freely.

I mean you’ve got a high ranking Tory breaking his own lockdown rules, a high ranking Tory slagging off student nurses, and now you’ve got the entire Conservative party voting against weekly tests for NHS staff and care workers. All this on top of Brexit which they’ve handled equally as bad.

And there’s the easing of lockdown. I’m not suggesting people should be shut in doors for ever, but that entire process was diabolical from the start. It was never officially called “lockdown”, thus leaving it up to interpretation.

There’s four and half years to go under a Government who clearly put profit before people. If being peed off at that makes me bitter than so be it.

As I've said I have no interest in politics so I can't comment on your first 4 sentences, nor would I dispute them either it's your opinion which your quite entitled to make on here, but if I could just add to your last sentences, as you say there is another four and a half years to go under this government accept it and move on, your bitterness towards them is unhealthy and is clearly grating on you, I don't use the ignore button on here, but when it comes to politics and the newspapers and news media it's on permanently, maybe you should do the same, life then might become a lot simpler.