What ! and have playing in the top flight decided on a teams ability to play the game, that will never catch on

Licensing has made clubs kick start stadium developments, more clubs have blooded more British players, club sponsors are easier to come by knowing they will be on sky in SL. Clubs have improved facilities for players and fans. These are the reasons we left p and r. The RFL have buckled due to pressure from a few clubs without thinking of the good licensing was doing for the game over here. Licensing should have been for 20 years at least to see the benefits properly but yet again the RFL try something, It's not an instant success, so give up. It would have worked and seen to be fair, had it been policed properly, kicking out those who failed the criteria, including us.

Because it's short term and does not promote stability. I know it's traditional and works in football - however that is a far richer game and teams can fall 1 or 2 divisions and survive - we can't.

As ever we flounder from one extreme to another in RL - surely there is a halfway house between the horrors of relegation and the unfairness of a closed shop.

Clubs like us will never produce a GB International again with P&R in place - do you want that?

To be fair that's the last thing on my mind regarding Trinity, I've been watching this team since the mid seventies, I can't remember spawning multitudes of GB players whether it be in P&R days or indeed in the fourteen years ( someone will put me right on that if I've got it wrong) we've been in Super league.

Perhaps it was a little unfair, to put it another I will be pleasantly surprised if the three mentioned get much game time next season outside of injuries.

Fully agree about the environment to blood youngsters.I only hope the non-fed limit is retained and the club trained numbers remain the same at the very least. An increase in the former will see a return to sides being filled with kolpack stiffs, even more so now the pound no longer has the value to entice the better antipodeans.

Really,

You won't be saying that if we get relegated and we can't afford to pay to play at BV or Newmarket and thus become homeless and cease to exist.

Think you're being a touch naive that you can't see that?

Yep in the 1980's and 90's you could just get away with it but the demands off the field of SL will leave any demoted club
basically destitute - it's simply to complex off field these days to be able to leave it to what happens on field - simple though that may seem.

Licensing would have worked if the rules had been enforced in a fair, consistent and even-handed way; they weren't, which has created the illusion that the system doesn't work. In reality, it's those people administering the system who have failed.

The return to P&R will be a disaster for the game in this country - clubs will behave in a short-termist, desperate manner and that means fewer opportunities for young players and reduced investment in youth and junior set-ups. Not good.

What I said but better put

I'll clarify what I mean - it's not the GB Cap that bothers me it's the harm it does to the club building a team.

Any junior at Wakefield who is half decent will look at us as relegation fodder and will jump ship with the help of his agent ASAP long before we get any real value off him. How can we ever build a decent home grown team with that hanging over us. Without P&R we have a chance of getting some to stay but with it we have no chance.

It will be journeymen and hired mercenaries for us until we finally bite the dust or NM finally happens and saves us. I'm not obsessed with homegrown players but when we do produce one it would be nice to have some chance of keeping them.

Your putting a lot of eggs into one big basket there Vasty regarding NM been the savior of the club. It could have the totally oposite effect. LSV didn't get Leigh a SL guarantee.

P&R is coming and it could be at the worse possible time for some clubs. I get the feeling that if London get what they want, P&R will be held off for a couple of years though.

Whatever happens over next 6 weeks regarding structure, there will definitely be p& r in 2015 season

Backwards move. It doesn't work.

I'd like to see the SL brand built up to such an extent that conferences can be introduced to facilitate the clubs who wish to compete at the highest domestoc level.

How do you feel about it MC? Your unique position and thoughts would be interesting on the subject. As I've stated I'm in the licensing camp.

I wish I was planning a 3 year budget to live within our means under a licensing system. It would be a fairly easy process to live within our means with no relegation. A massively wasted opportunity 2 years ago in my opinion. Although hindsight is a wonderful thing.
However I feel it does lead to too many dead rubber games. I guess for a lot of fans the highlight of the last 10 years would be the 'million pound game'. Might not have been had the result been different. I think there are big arguments for both systems. From a pure fan of the game, p & r leads to more excitement. From a club owner point of view it would allow breathing space and planning. I guess the problem is that it's been abused by clubs, chasing a dream.

Excellently put bren, particularly the bottom paragraph.
I will openly admit I was not a fan of franchising in the beginning, which I think was simply that I didn't "know" anything else. With franchising in place I've seen what I've always wanted to see darn't lane (bar a trophy!), which was to see young local lads coming through the ranks and fulfilling their boyhood dream and young English players coming off the conveyor belt that the Aussies want and fear. Now is the time to build on this in my opinion, not start smashing haphazardly at the foundations we've put in place. My vote would be for no relegation from SL and look to add to the competition every three years or so if, and its a big if, a team below is ready to add something to the competition as opposed to just seeing the previous years relegated players playing in a different kit before being relegated again.

I’m still of the opinion that there will be no P & R in the 2014 season.

Not that I’ve got any info, highly unlikely living in this RL wasteland, however, I’ve just got a sneaky feeling.

I would love to be a fly on the wall when all the CEO’s meet up to discuss the plans for re-structuring. There are the big guns fighting over more power, London screaming for dispensations, Bradford’s iconic status on shaky ground & us apparently happy to tow the Hertherington party line, for the good of the game

.

Ditto.

Although it is arguable that the game isn't big or strong enough to cope with promotion and relegation, the same is true for franchising.

Think back to the last round of franchising. Both Kear and JD said that we couldn't get anyone to sign for us because we were seen as a dead cert for not getting a franchise. We were dead men walking.

Also, the criteria meant that clubs did stupid things that were as financially disastrous as they do with promotion and relegation. For example, the point awarded for having a certain number of members meant that clubs offered cut price memberships. Look at how that turned out at Bradford and us. Equally, ground improvements were made that were welcome but seemingly not affordable (with hindsight).

The only way to make franchising work properly is by not having the 3-yearly cycle of "who is going out?" and by making it a true closed shop. But what of those not in it? Would wither and die as surely as they would by dropping a couple of divisions.

Put simply, the game isn't big enough to cope with either. For me, the excitement and fairness of relegation is my favourite. Just. As opposed to the perceived unfairnesses of licensing, particularly with the emphasis on expansion over other criteria.

But thats why running a rugby team is not like running a high street business... the variables are far too great... a sustainable club may be sucessful in terms of its financial management but it is unlikely to compete against the 'rich mans hobby' clubs in the chase for trophies.

you are never on a level playing field, yet all are chasing the same, single point, of success.

a sustainable club though is far more likely to attract additional investment, maybe you are creating the first genuinely sustainable model, interesting times.

I’m definitely in the P & R camp, however, I feel the reduction of the top league is a retrograde step & as for the league splitting into three eights, it’s just too gimmicky.

The main bone of contention with the current system was there were too many dead rubber games, well, add relegation into the mix & the intensity would surely be ratcheted up.

A one up, one down system would be my preferred option, but not until the 2015 season. When clubs were given a licence in the 2012 season I’m sure it didn’t stipulate they could be relegated in the third year if they finished in the bottom two.

To pull up the drawbridge would be a cardinal sin, as supporters of every club dream of the big time & claiming the ultimate prize, Christ I’ve been waiting for forty years.

Jeez, bit of a thread drift, sorry mods, but I didn’t start it.

The solution is to have a top division and add to the league to build it up. If/when it gets to a sufficient number then split it into conferences. The half and half sysyem we had didn't work in the short time it was in place but it needed tweaking not abandoning.

Without said hetheringtons we'd have gone by now. For all our best intentions last august, knowing what I know now, myself and Chris wouldn't have stood a chance of pulling this off! And I'm not ashamed to admit it!

Any possibility of making the Hetherington sign a permanent deal? It was the best signing the club has made in years.

I do not doubt the assistance that has been received, and as a Trinity fan I’m very grateful.

But, if the consequence of your loyalty is to back a twelve team structure, with a gimmicky three eights format is the price to pay, the situation must have been very dire indeed.

So in reality, has Kath saved yours and Chris's houses and helped find a way of getting rid of 500k of deficit? If that's the case she was worth whatever wage she was on.