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| He didn't claim building work had begun. He was stating that the groundworks had begun and that included shifting a huge amount of soil/muck/crap from the site, clearly shown on Google Earth/Maps.
Well, we were going to have to demonstrate progression either way, however, I ask the question again. If the GH site wasn't viable, wouldn't we have shelved it years ago and looked elsewhere at other plans?
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| Quote ="Fully"He didn't claim building work had begun. He was stating that the groundworks had begun and that included shifting a huge amount of soil/muck/crap from the site, clearly shown on Google Earth/Maps.
Well, we were going to have to demonstrate progression either way, however, I ask the question again. If the GH site wasn't viable, wouldn't we have shelved it years ago and looked elsewhere at other plans?'"
Second point first, I'm not saying that GH isn't viable, in fact the inference of my posts on the FPP fee is that I think it is.
First point, I think you're splitting hairs and I think you're intelligent enough to know you are as well. We both know what RWs intent was when he did that news footage!
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| Quote ="The Clan"It's not for no reason though is it?
There's two reasons behind spending the £200K;
1, it pays for the FPP that's needed to move on with the stadium build when you pull the financing together
2, it takes Castleford demonstrably one step further in the process of building a stadium which looks good on the franchise application.
I have no problem with No2 but let's not pretend that it was done NOW for any other reason than to help Castleford secure a franchise! It was done even though Cas are not in a position to spend that sort of money without sacrifices.
It was done as a franchise winning tactic and was as calculated as RW donning his hardhat and standing in front of a couple of JCBs whilst proclaiming that building work on the stadium had begun.'"
And if this was the case then whats the problem??!!!
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| Quote ="The Clan"Second point first, I'm not saying that GH isn't viable, in fact the inference of my posts on the FPP fee is that I think it is.
First point, I think you're splitting hairs and I think you're intelligent enough to know you are as well. We both know what RWs intent was when he did that news footage!'"
I apologise. I was referring to the other fans stating that it was 'unstable', when in fact, I don't think that other developments would have been built on that hillside had it been deemed that.
Our intent is to secure a licence by submitting the best application possible. We're going to need full PP anyway and by submitting it now demonstrates we're committed to a new stadium at GH. Once that has been given the green light (fingers crossed) it may also encourage sponsors and local businesses to come onboard and could open up new, invaluable funding streams.
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| Quote ="Fully"He didn't claim building work had begun. He was stating that the groundworks had begun and that included shifting a huge amount of soil/muck/crap from the site, clearly shown on Google Earth/Maps.
Well, we were going to have to demonstrate progression either way, however, I ask the question again. If the GH site wasn't viable, wouldn't we have shelved it years ago and looked elsewhere at other plans?'"
It may of seemed viable at some stage in the past, pre recession just like Thornes Park was viable back then. Having obviously failed to deliver the funding Cas are now backed in a corner. Admit its a no go and risk not getting a franchise or keep the façade for the purpose off the franchise, it's a no brainer really. When the prise is 3 more years breathing space to re group and work out a way forward. Considering the what's at stake £200k is an investment well worth making.
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| Oh FFS I don't usually bother getting involved with the dick measuring contests on either clubs forums regards each ones stadium , but reading the numerous repeated threads, banging on with the same bile, conjecture, guess work and pure made up bull from both sets of fans has driven me to write this one and only time on the matter.
I remember a time when we use to argue about on field matters and even have a decent bit of banter over it. But now all I ever read is about your stadium is this and yours is that and it's doing my nut in !
I don't profess to know anything about the new stadiums of each club or know a man who knows a fella that goes out with a woman who overheard a conversation blah blah blah.
But what I do know is that as it stands neither club is going to be moving into a shiny new stadium any time soon. I also know that Cas will be playing at the Probiz for the forseeable future and Wakey will be playing at the RSS to at least the end of this season.
I also know that next week we will all know who is coming up from the championship (Widnes !) but we will have to wait another 4 months to find out who they are replacing.
One final thing I know is that whoever gets dropped is out of the hands of the fans no matter what we all do in the interim as I'm pretty certain that decision has probably already been taken by the powers that be.
Now I do not want it to be my club that goes and wakey fans do not want it to be there's. I think that the loss of either will be a massive loss to SL and will also weaken the competition. I want the derbies to continue and the fantastic production line of talent that comes thru from the respective clubs areas to continue to flourish isn't that what franchising was suppose to be about as well as nice bogs !
I fear that if either club goes then over time this will diminish as community work will be cut thus leading to loss of interest from local kids who will turn their talents to another sport.
Now I'm sorry to bang on for so long and I won't keep you much longer but I'd just like to say good luck to Wakey for the rest of the season I hope that both our great clubs can be in the playoffs and have a decent cup run to really give the authorities something to think about as I'm pretty certain there's several other clubs in SL that do not bring as much to the competition as we both do.
Finally, congratulations to the RFL for bringing this great game to this where the friendly banter that once existed has turned to animosity and spite, you must be so proud !
Rant over.
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| Quote ="WallTiger"Oh FFS I don't usually bother getting involved with the dick measuring contests on either clubs forums regards each ones stadium , but reading the numerous repeated threads, banging on with the same bile, conjecture, guess work and pure made up bull from both sets of fans has driven me to write this one and only time on the matter.
I remember a time when we use to argue about on field matters and even have a decent bit of banter over it. But now all I ever read is about your stadium is this and yours is that and it's doing my nut in !
I don't profess to know anything about the new stadiums of each club or know a man who knows a fella that goes out with a woman who overheard a conversation blah blah blah.
But what I do know is that as it stands neither club is going to be moving into a shiny new stadium any time soon. I also know that Cas will be playing at the Probiz for the forseeable future and Wakey will be playing at the RSS to at least the end of this season.
I also know that next week we will all know who is coming up from the championship (Widnes !) but we will have to wait another 4 months to find out who they are replacing.
One final thing I know is that whoever gets dropped is out of the hands of the fans no matter what we all do in the interim as I'm pretty certain that decision has probably already been taken by the powers that be.
Now I do not want it to be my club that goes and wakey fans do not want it to be there's. I think that the loss of either will be a massive loss to SL and will also weaken the competition. I want the derbies to continue and the fantastic production line of talent that comes thru from the respective clubs areas to continue to flourish isn't that what franchising was suppose to be about as well as nice bogs !
I fear that if either club goes then over time this will diminish as community work will be cut thus leading to loss of interest from local kids who will turn their talents to another sport.
Now I'm sorry to bang on for so long and I won't keep you much longer but I'd just like to say good luck to Wakey for the rest of the season I hope that both our great clubs can be in the playoffs and have a decent cup run to really give the authorities something to think about as I'm pretty certain there's several other clubs in SL that do not bring as much to the competition as we both do.
Finally, congratulations to the RFL for bringing this great game to this where the friendly banter that once existed has turned to animosity and spite, you must be so proud !
Rant over.'"
Post of the year Mr WallTiger!
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| Quote ="WallTiger"Oh FFS I don't usually bother getting involved with the dick measuring contests on either clubs forums regards each ones stadium , but reading the numerous repeated threads, banging on with the same bile, conjecture, guess work and pure made up bull from both sets of fans has driven me to write this one and only time on the matter.
I remember a time when we use to argue about on field matters and even have a decent bit of banter over it. But now all I ever read is about your stadium is this and yours is that and it's doing my nut in !
I don't profess to know anything about the new stadiums of each club or know a man who knows a fella that goes out with a woman who overheard a conversation blah blah blah.
But what I do know is that as it stands neither club is going to be moving into a shiny new stadium any time soon. I also know that Cas will be playing at the Probiz for the forseeable future and Wakey will be playing at the RSS to at least the end of this season.
I also know that next week we will all know who is coming up from the championship (Widnes !) but we will have to wait another 4 months to find out who they are replacing.
One final thing I know is that whoever gets dropped is out of the hands of the fans no matter what we all do in the interim as I'm pretty certain that decision has probably already been taken by the powers that be.
Now I do not want it to be my club that goes and wakey fans do not want it to be there's. I think that the loss of either will be a massive loss to SL and will also weaken the competition. I want the derbies to continue and the fantastic production line of talent that comes thru from the respective clubs areas to continue to flourish isn't that what franchising was suppose to be about as well as nice bogs !
I fear that if either club goes then over time this will diminish as community work will be cut thus leading to loss of interest from local kids who will turn their talents to another sport.
Now I'm sorry to bang on for so long and I won't keep you much longer but I'd just like to say good luck to Wakey for the rest of the season I hope that both our great clubs can be in the playoffs and have a decent cup run to really give the authorities something to think about as I'm pretty certain there's several other clubs in SL that do not bring as much to the competition as we both do.
Finally, congratulations to the RFL for bringing this great game to this where the friendly banter that once existed has turned to animosity and spite, you must be so proud !
Rant over.'"
Well thought out sensible post and the views of most fans, well done you've broken the mould, it won't catch on mate but nice try.
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| Quote ="WallTiger"Oh FFS I don't usually bother getting involved with the dick measuring contests on either clubs forums regards each ones stadium , but reading the numerous repeated threads, banging on with the same bile, conjecture, guess work and pure made up bull from both sets of fans has driven me to write this one and only time on the matter.
I remember a time when we use to argue about on field matters and even have a decent bit of banter over it. But now all I ever read is about your stadium is this and yours is that and it's doing my nut in !
I don't profess to know anything about the new stadiums of each club or know a man who knows a fella that goes out with a woman who overheard a conversation blah blah blah.
But what I do know is that as it stands neither club is going to be moving into a shiny new stadium any time soon. I also know that Cas will be playing at the Probiz for the forseeable future and Wakey will be playing at the RSS to at least the end of this season.
I also know that next week we will all know who is coming up from the championship (Widnes !) but we will have to wait another 4 months to find out who they are replacing.
One final thing I know is that whoever gets dropped is out of the hands of the fans no matter what we all do in the interim as I'm pretty certain that decision has probably already been taken by the powers that be.
Now I do not want it to be my club that goes and wakey fans do not want it to be there's. I think that the loss of either will be a massive loss to SL and will also weaken the competition. I want the derbies to continue and the fantastic production line of talent that comes thru from the respective clubs areas to continue to flourish isn't that what franchising was suppose to be about as well as nice bogs !
I fear that if either club goes then over time this will diminish as community work will be cut thus leading to loss of interest from local kids who will turn their talents to another sport.
Now I'm sorry to bang on for so long and I won't keep you much longer but I'd just like to say good luck to Wakey for the rest of the season I hope that both our great clubs can be in the playoffs and have a decent cup run to really give the authorities something to think about as I'm pretty certain there's several other clubs in SL that do not bring as much to the competition as we both do.
Finally, congratulations to the RFL for bringing this great game to this where the friendly banter that once existed has turned to animosity and spite, you must be so proud !
Rant over.'"
Well put, I agree with most of what you say but this is a forum and people will discuss all sorts of Rugby League & Wakefield Trinity topics, some do it in a rather grown up and sensible manner.
I also discuss things like the Governments financial cuts, what's happening in Libya and lots of other things I can do little or nothing about!
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| Quote ="WallTiger"Oh FFS I don't usually bother getting involved with the dick measuring contests on either clubs forums regards each ones stadium , but reading the numerous repeated threads, banging on with the same bile, conjecture, guess work and pure made up bull from both sets of fans has driven me to write this one and only time on the matter.
I remember a time when we use to argue about on field matters and even have a decent bit of banter over it. But now all I ever read is about your stadium is this and yours is that and it's doing my nut in !
I don't profess to know anything about the new stadiums of each club or know a man who knows a fella that goes out with a woman who overheard a conversation blah blah blah.
But what I do know is that as it stands neither club is going to be moving into a shiny new stadium any time soon. I also know that Cas will be playing at the Probiz for the forseeable future and Wakey will be playing at the RSS to at least the end of this season.
I also know that next week we will all know who is coming up from the championship (Widnes !) but we will have to wait another 4 months to find out who they are replacing.
One final thing I know is that whoever gets dropped is out of the hands of the fans no matter what we all do in the interim as I'm pretty certain that decision has probably already been taken by the powers that be.
Now I do not want it to be my club that goes and wakey fans do not want it to be there's. I think that the loss of either will be a massive loss to SL and will also weaken the competition. I want the derbies to continue and the fantastic production line of talent that comes thru from the respective clubs areas to continue to flourish isn't that what franchising was suppose to be about as well as nice bogs !
I fear that if either club goes then over time this will diminish as community work will be cut thus leading to loss of interest from local kids who will turn their talents to another sport.
Now I'm sorry to bang on for so long and I won't keep you much longer but I'd just like to say good luck to Wakey for the rest of the season I hope that both our great clubs can be in the playoffs and have a decent cup run to really give the authorities something to think about as I'm pretty certain there's several other clubs in SL that do not bring as much to the competition as we both do.
Finally, congratulations to the RFL for bringing this great game to this where the friendly banter that once existed has turned to animosity and spite, you must be so proud !
Rant over.'"
Good post. RFL must be really proud getting rival fans falling out over franchising instead of talking about the finer points of our game.
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| [urlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/castleford/4679548.stm[/url
I've heard of all of Wakefield's failings, and this isn't them-v-us, because I think we are down regardless, but I think we are entitled to be sceptical of RW's constant PR about how the ground is about to happen, because it was going to be built early in the summer of 2006, and at that point they had been working on it "for some time". Can any Castleford fan really say that they are any further on than they were five years ago, because five years ago they were four months from building it (the article in February 2006 quotes "early summer"icon_wink.gif. They are much more than that now.
As I've stated elsewhere, if Cas are able to build their own stadium, well done to them. They will have done it under their own steam. Also, us going down, if we do, is because of what we did or didn't do, not because of what Cas might do. My only gripe would be if the RFL decide that it is purely us or them, and the deciding factor is the spin and waffle of RW, because when you examine it more closely, they are further away from a new ground now than they were in 2006, when four months seems to have been the starting point back then.
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"[urlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/castleford/4679548.stm[/url
I've heard of all of Wakefield's failings, and this isn't them-v-us, because I think we are down regardless, but I think we are entitled to be sceptical of RW's constant PR about how the ground is about to happen, because it was going to be built early in the summer of 2006, and at that point they had been working on it "for some time". Can any Castleford fan really say that they are any further on than they were five years ago, because five years ago they were four months from building it (the article in February 2006 quotes "early summer"icon_wink.gif. They are much more than that now.
As I've stated elsewhere, if Cas are able to build their own stadium, well done to them. They will have done it under their own steam. Also, us going down, if we do, is because of what we did or didn't do, not because of what Cas might do. My only gripe would be if the RFL decide that it is purely us or them, and the deciding factor is the spin and waffle of RW, because when you examine it more closely, they are further away from a new ground now than they were in 2006, when four months seems to have been the starting point back then.'"
It all boils down to who the RFL want to believe.
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt" if the RFL decide that it is purely us or them, and the deciding factor is the spin and waffle of RW, because when you examine it more closely, they are further away from a new ground now than they were in 2006, when four months seems to have been the starting point back then.'"
How do you get that then? 4 years ago there were no plans and no planning permission - now the plans are drawn up and there to be seen by everyone and FPP is being seen on the 7th of April. So you're "much closer examination" hasn't really come out well has it?
As for spin & waffle - how can you exactly build a stadium during a GLOBAL recession with NO public money going into the build? Exactly, there have been delays just like thousands of building projects in this country alone, it's not Wrights fault is it? all he's doing is keeping everyone up to date in a positive way, just like a chairman should, he's put the facts out there that there is delays and that the club believes it wont affect a franchise because there are other criteria which Cas rate VERY highly in. It's really not all about stadiums at all, it's just Sky banging on about it all the time has left peoples judgements clouded - how about commercial, financial, contribution to the competition and junior development?
The bottom line is, on the whole the RFL have gone about franchising in completely the wrong way - giving teams 3 years to do something is really not fair, or right. The way franchising is SUPPOSED to work is how it is with American sports and the NRL, you keep your core teams together and then add WHEN the league can support new teams, not every 3 years for the sake of it, it leaves it too open for bias & prejudiced opinions when it comes to decision making. The only fair thing to do would be keep the same 14 teams, leave the league as it is until everyone is settled and the league is ready for growth then add 2 more teams and get rid of the every 3 years rubbish.
Quote ="wakeytrin"It all boils down to who the RFL want to believe.
'"
Not really, lets add in some other factors using the RFLs stupid idea: Financial - 2 clubs have entered administration during the franchise period, that shows just how well the idea works, doesn't it? straight away them 2 clubs should be the favourites to go down, junior development there are plenty of teams with junior development not half as good as what Cas & Wakey have, and commercial - well Cas have the current commercial manager of the year in Craig Poskitt so at the minute Cas have the best commercial setup in the league. Using all the factors, Cas should comfortably get a franchise and stadiums are only a SMALL PART of the whole deal, it's just Sky who have blown it out of proportion.
If you want to base it on poor stadia, lets throw in Bradford & KR, terrible places to watch Rugby.
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| Quote ="Gaslight"How do you get that then? 4 years ago there were no plans and no planning permission - now the plans are drawn up and there to be seen by everyone and FPP is being seen on the 7th of April. So you're "much closer examination" hasn't really come out well has it?'"
Er, I got it from the Castleford press release, if you read the linked article from February 2006, as the BBC get their news from club press releases (they are not interested enough in RL to actually look for stories). Waystones were about to submit an outline planning permission application, with building starting in the early summer. If you can find any rebuttal from Cas that the BBC were wildly inaccurate and that Cas fans shouldn't get their hopes up.
Although:
“We’ve been working on our new stadium project for quite some time and now have the crucial parts to the project in place"
Richard Wright, 1st March 2006:
He is clearly a patient man, because by December 2006, it was:
"This application is a triumph for perseverance, patience and partnership. The planning application is one more step but it is a massive step."
And there were his other partners:
"there could be some news on progress quite soon"
David Smart, Cas Tigers Media and Marketing Manager, 1st Feb 2006
“We have drawn up plans for a community stadium at Glasshoughton. The community gave a very clear message, through the Urban Renaissance Initiative, that a new stadium for Cas Tigers was a top priority."
Stuart McLoughlin, Managing Director of Waystone, 1st March 2006:
So although Wakey's demise is more to do with it's own failings, we are allowed to be more than a little sceptical at this week's announcement and see it as just pre-franchise hot air. We have been here before, remember, and I cannot see how you are any nearer to starting to build a new stadium than you were five years ago. RW has said "not this year". That probably means "maybe next year, hopefully," which also means, "but at least the year after that." That wasn't the timescale envisaged five years ago, and so that's why I say that you are no nearer than you were five years ago.
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| Yes and then you seem to negate to mention the reasons why things haven't progressed as quick. But that doesn't fit into your agenda does it?
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| The early signs of the credit crunch were first felt in late 2007 long after the proposed build of Castlefords stadium in the summer of 2006 as per Sluggers link.
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| Quote ="wakeytrin"It all boils down to who the RFL want to believe.
'"
It boils down to the FACTS.
Bigger crowds
Better league position
Better young players coming through
Better finances
Stadiums are only the tip of the ice berg when it comes to licences.
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| 100% Correct WallTiger.
Well said.
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| If the RFL care about the why, Wakey should be okay then (Council pulling the plug, being called in, tax man shifting the policy).
As I said earlier, if Cas can do it, good luck to you, because it's more than we have done. The last five years suggests, however, that it's one more trip on the merry-go-round.
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"[urlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/castleford/4679548.stm[/url
I've heard of all of Wakefield's failings, and this isn't them-v-us, because I think we are down regardless, but I think we are entitled to be sceptical of RW's constant PR about how the ground is about to happen, because it was going to be built early in the summer of 2006, and at that point they had been working on it "for some time". Can any Castleford fan really say that they are any further on than they were five years ago, because five years ago they were four months from building it (the article in February 2006 quotes "early summer"icon_wink.gif. They are much more than that now.
As I've stated elsewhere, if Cas are able to build their own stadium, well done to them. They will have done it under their own steam. Also, us going down, if we do, is because of what we did or didn't do, not because of what Cas might do. My only gripe would be if the RFL decide that it is purely us or them, and the deciding factor is the spin and waffle of RW, because when you examine it more closely, they are further away from a new ground now than they were in 2006, when four months seems to have been the starting point back then.'"
READ THE ARTICLE AGAIN!
It states that the Outline Planning Application will be submitted early in the Summer Not a Stadium will be Built by then.
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| Quote ="NorthTiger"It boils down to the FACTS.
Bigger crowds
Better league position
Better young players coming through
Better finances
Stadiums are only the tip of the ice berg when it comes to licences.'"
what about community work? we, as a club, probably have one of, if not the best community teams and work in the entire league
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| Quote ="Willzay"what about community work? we, as a club, probably have one of, if not the best community teams and work in the entire league'"
As do we.
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| Quote ="The Clan"The early signs of the credit crunch were first felt in late 2007 long after the proposed build of Castlefords stadium in the summer of 2006 as per Sluggers link.'"
What about the Hicksons licence that wasn't removed until late last year?
Had that been removed, as expected in 2006/7, Cas could have sold the stadium before all this economic ballcocks and got the new stadium. It wasn't. That has prevented us selling the stadium and land prices etc have fallen since.
That is the sole reason, coupled with the economy, as to why things haven't moved at the speed of light as you Wakefield fans would like them to.
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| Quote ="bigalf"READ THE ARTICLE AGAIN!
It states that the Outline Planning Application will be submitted early in the Summer Not a Stadium will be Built by then.
'"
You might be right, fair enough, didn't spot the comma, which changes the emphasis, but it is still more than five years ago, that's the general point.
As I read this week's announcement, there's another new partner, with yet another trip down the planning road, if the nature of the development at Wheldon Road has changed. The point is, how are you nearer now than you were in February 2006, because it won't be started this year, RW has said that, and so maybe it won't even be next year, and then you've got to build it, and so did RW really mean, when he was making the splash in press in February 2006, that Cas wouldn't be in a stadium for three years?
This week is a whole new idea for the funding. That makes the path a long one for the buyer, and as Ben Bailey homes found out, starting off with good intentions doesn't always mean you follow through with them.
I don't blame RW for spinning it, I would want him to if I was a Cas fan, and my gripe would be with the RFL if they swallow it. My own view is that in 2013 we will be building a stadium. You might not be. If the RFL take a longer look at things, you never know, they may take the view that Wakey in the long run is a better prospect. I think the greater chance, however, is that we'll both go down and they'll give Halifax or Toulouse a go.
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| Quote ="Willzay"what about community work? we, as a club, probably have one of, if not the best community teams and work in the entire league'"
Well done. But then refer to my above post.
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