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| Quote ="PopTart"They were foolish for turning that down then. He's good but if they are in trouble that's a big chunk of money.'"
Which is why i believe reports of their demise are greatly exaggerated. |
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To those not appreciating a club keeping their finances under control, just look at what has happened to Wasps.
Massively successful rugby union club now playing in tier 10.
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| Quote ="PopTart"To those not appreciating a club keeping their finances under control, just look at what has happened to Wasps.
Massively successful rugby union club now playing in tier 10.'"
Yet it can also swing too far the other way with a similar end state, which is why we are looking at playing in tier 2 of RL next season |
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| Quote ="Egg Banjo"Yet it can also swing too far the other way with a similar end state, which is why we are looking at playing in tier 2 of RL next season'"
Erm, tier 2 with a way back v tier 10 with no ground to play at.
Yer that's the same |
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| Quote ="Sacred Cow"Which is why i believe reports of their demise are greatly exaggerated.'"
They're asking supporters to take out loans to pay for shares  |
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| Quote ="charlie"They're asking supporters to take out loans to pay for shares
'"
But if it came to it they could sell Croft, Dupree, Lafai et al to cover costs, knowing we're goosed so no risk of relegation. Long term they are in bother, but short term they are fine and we certainly won't be staying up at their expense, not that I'd want us to stay in SL that way. |
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| Quote ="charlie"They're asking supporters to take out loans to pay for shares
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Offering an option and asking people to do it are very different things.
They're running a short fund raising campaign, and some fans wanted to get membership but also wanted the option to spread that cost over a longer period |
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| Quote ="Egg Banjo"Offering an option and asking people to do it are very different things.
They're running a short fund raising campaign, and some fans wanted to get membership but also wanted the option to spread that cost over a longer period'"
They aren't selling memberships, they are soliciting donations - and they are facilitating people to take loans to do so. At the end of this, the club has £1000 cash from a loan in someone else's name, and the fan has a £1200 debt. The fan also has f-all to show for it.
It's distasteful to say the least. |
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| Quote ="dboy"They aren't selling memberships, they are soliciting donations - and they are facilitating people to take loans to do so. At the end of this, the club has £1000 cash from a loan in someone else's name, and the fan has a £1200 debt. The fan also has f-all to show for it.
It's distasteful to say the least.'"
At least you'd never catch Trinity soliciting for donations from fans for some pretend shares |
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| Quote ="Egg Banjo"At least you'd never catch Trinity soliciting for donations from fans for some pretend shares'"
Wakey did not, at any time, frame it in the way that SRD have.
Wakey have not implied that you in any way "own" the club.
SRD is not, and will never be, a supporter owned club under the terms of the scheme they are running now, |
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Quote ="dboy"Wakey did not, at any time, frame it in the way that SRD have.
Wakey have not implied that you in any way "own" the club.
SRD is not, and will never be, a supporter owned club under the terms of the scheme they are running now,'"
Quite so, it is unreasonable for people to buy shares in a club thinking it would mean they own shares in the club, it would be completely irresponsible to suggest that selling shares and promoting the idea of being a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity would be in any way similar to what Salford are doing
https://wakefieldtrinity.com/become-a-s ... d-trinity/ |
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Quote ="dboy"Wakey did not, at any time, frame it in the way that SRD have.
Wakey have not implied that you in any way "own" the club.
SRD is not, and will never be, a supporter owned club under the terms of the scheme they are running now,'"
Quite so, it is unreasonable for people to buy shares in a club thinking it would mean they own shares in the club, it would be completely irresponsible to suggest that selling shares and promoting the idea of being a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity would be in any way similar to what Salford are doing
https://wakefieldtrinity.com/become-a-s ... d-trinity/ | |
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| Quote ="Egg Banjo"At least you'd never catch Trinity soliciting for donations from fans for some pretend shares'"
Everyone who read the details knew it was a donation with a bit of preferential comms and a signature on the new stand in return.
I am perfectly happy with my donation. |
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| Quote ="PopTart"Everyone who read the details knew it was a donation with a bit of preferential comms and a signature on the new stand in return.
I am perfectly happy with my donation.'"
So what is the difference between Salfords pretend shares and Trinity's pretend shares? Both teams suggest that by buying "shares" you become a "shareholder" in the club. The Trinity article was even titled "Become a Shareholder in Wakefield Trinity"
But I suppose that's the point, the ones who have "invested" in both phoney share schemes know that neither are actually worth the paper they are written on but the fans are happy to invest, or at least I'd hope so and it's not a cynical ploy from both clubs to con hard working fans from their money |
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Quote ="Egg Banjo"Quite so, it is unreasonable for people to buy shares in a club thinking it would mean they own shares in the club, it would be completely irresponsible to suggest that selling shares and promoting the idea of being a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity would be in any way similar to what Salford are doing
https://wakefieldtrinity.com/become-a-s ... d-trinity/'"
So, from the link you share...
Wakefield Trinity RLFC are inviting expressions of interest from individuals who may be interested in [uinvesting[/u in the club.
As well as inviting those with potentially large amounts to invest, [uthe club is intending to issue “Member shares”[/u to supporters who may be interested in investing relatively modest amounts in tranches of £500. This may appeal to those who would like to feel[u a sense of ownership and be closer to the activities of the club than at present but are not seeking any voting participation or financial return and do not have a desire to take an active part in the running of the club.[/u
[uMember shareholders will participate in a class of shares that would not attract voting or dividend rights[/u. [uMember shares are aimed at those who would like to back up their support for the club with a financial investment but without the desire to participate in the running of the club.[/u
[uFor those who would like a more active role within the club, we are making a separate offer of “Owner shares” available with a suggested, but not mandated, minimum subscription of £50,000.[/u
We very much hope that many of our loyal supporters will wish to take up the opportunity to become member shareholders. [uFor those for whom that is not possible we will continue to value your contribution in terms of tickets, merchandise, and your very special vocal support.[/u"
That last bit is especially pertinent - it doesn't say "for those for whom it is not possible, we'll facilitate a loan at 20% APR..." |
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Quote ="Egg Banjo"Quite so, it is unreasonable for people to buy shares in a club thinking it would mean they own shares in the club, it would be completely irresponsible to suggest that selling shares and promoting the idea of being a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity would be in any way similar to what Salford are doing
https://wakefieldtrinity.com/become-a-s ... d-trinity/'"
So, from the link you share...
Wakefield Trinity RLFC are inviting expressions of interest from individuals who may be interested in [uinvesting[/u in the club.
As well as inviting those with potentially large amounts to invest, [uthe club is intending to issue “Member shares”[/u to supporters who may be interested in investing relatively modest amounts in tranches of £500. This may appeal to those who would like to feel[u a sense of ownership and be closer to the activities of the club than at present but are not seeking any voting participation or financial return and do not have a desire to take an active part in the running of the club.[/u
[uMember shareholders will participate in a class of shares that would not attract voting or dividend rights[/u. [uMember shares are aimed at those who would like to back up their support for the club with a financial investment but without the desire to participate in the running of the club.[/u
[uFor those who would like a more active role within the club, we are making a separate offer of “Owner shares” available with a suggested, but not mandated, minimum subscription of £50,000.[/u
We very much hope that many of our loyal supporters will wish to take up the opportunity to become member shareholders. [uFor those for whom that is not possible we will continue to value your contribution in terms of tickets, merchandise, and your very special vocal support.[/u"
That last bit is especially pertinent - it doesn't say "for those for whom it is not possible, we'll facilitate a loan at 20% APR..." | |
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| Quote ="Egg Banjo"So what is the difference between Salfords pretend shares and Trinity's pretend shares? Both teams suggest that by buying "shares" you become a "shareholder" in the club. The Trinity article was even titled "Become a Shareholder in Wakefield Trinity"
But I suppose that's the point, the ones who have "invested" in both phoney share schemes know that neither are actually worth the paper they are written on but the fans are happy to invest, or at least I'd hope so and it's not a cynical ploy from both clubs to con hard working fans from their money'"
If you didn't invest, why do you have such an issue with it?
Wakefield were very clear about what you were paying for. |
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| Quote ="PopTart"If you didn't invest, why do you have such an issue with it?
Wakefield were very clear about what you were paying for.'"
I don't have an issue with it, but it smacks of hypocrisy that people are saying Salford are failing because they've just done the same as us. If Salford fans want to invest (which it looks like they do), then great, if Trinity fans want to do the same - great too
But having the audacity to do one and then call out the other is just plain ridiculous |
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| Quote ="Egg Banjo"I don't have an issue with it, but it smacks of hypocrisy that people are saying Salford are failing because they've just done the same as us. If Salford fans want to invest (which it looks like they do), then great, if Trinity fans want to do the same - great too
But having the audacity to do one and then call out the other is just plain ridiculous'"
Ah I get what you mean. Fair point. |
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| Quote ="Egg Banjo"I don't have an issue with it, but it smacks of hypocrisy that people are saying Salford are failing because they've just done the same as us. If Salford fans want to invest (which it looks like they do), then great, if Trinity fans want to do the same - great too
But having the audacity to do one and then call out the other is just plain ridiculous'"
They haven't done just the same as us.
Theirs is framed as fan-based club ownership, which it is not.
Nor have we sent the loan sharks round to encourage people to spend money they don't have on funding our club. |
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| Quote ="dboy"They haven't done just the same as us.
Theirs is framed as fan-based club ownership, which it is not.
Nor have we sent the loan sharks round to encourage people to spend money they don't have on funding our club.'"
Ours was literally introduced in an article titled:
"Become a Shareholder in Wakefield Trinity"
You can try to pretend that it's not the same type of money making scheme - but it is
And it's a gross exaggeration (lie) to call the the credit union loan sharks and to suggest that Salford are forcing people to use them. |
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As I recall it, the Trinity one was for capital, the Salford one is for revenue.
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| Quote ="Egg Banjo"Ours was literally introduced in an article titled:
"Become a Shareholder in Wakefield Trinity"
You can try to pretend that it's not the same type of money making scheme - but it is
And it's a gross exaggeration (lie) to call the the credit union loan sharks and to suggest that Salford are forcing people to use them.'"
20% APR is sharking.
The Wfd share scheme states clearly what you are getting for your donation.
The SRD scheme suggests you are entering into a fan-ownership of the club - you are not - you are getting essentially the same as a Wfd fan = you are making a one-off donation to the club.
You are correct that the schemes are fundamentally the same in reality. Unfortunately, the SRD scheme is not honest about the actual benefits. |
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| Quote ="dboy"20% APR is sharking.
The Wfd share scheme states clearly what you are getting for your donation.
The SRD scheme suggests you are entering into a fan-ownership of the club - you are not - you are getting essentially the same as a Wfd fan = you are making a one-off donation to the club.
You are correct that the schemes are fundamentally the same in reality. Unfortunately, the SRD scheme is not honest about the actual benefits.'"
I would suggest that neither scheme is fundamentally being completely honest with the fans, because selling anything where the benefit is titled as becoming a shareholder implies that you are buying a share in that business, when in reality that is not really the case with either.
Personally I would like to see this type of scheme removed altogether from the sport as it is predatory in nature and relies on fans making financial decisions with their hearts and not their heads |
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| Quote ="Egg Banjo"I would suggest that neither scheme is fundamentally being completely honest with the fans, because selling anything where the benefit is titled as becoming a shareholder implies that you are buying a share in that business, when in reality that is not really the case with either.
Personally I would like to see this type of scheme removed altogether from the sport as it is predatory in nature and relies on fans making financial decisions with their hearts and not their heads'"
Sorry but it is wrong to say that about the Wakefield scheme. They were very very clear that you were not a Shareholder of the club. |
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| Quote ="PopTart"Sorry but it is wrong to say that about the Wakefield scheme. They were very very clear that you were not a Shareholder of the club.'"
Then why do they say "Become a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity" if they were very clear that you wouldn't actually be a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity
That's a rather conflicted message. |
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| Quote ="Egg Banjo"Then why do they say "Become a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity" if they were very clear that you wouldn't actually be a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity
That's a rather conflicted message.'"
I've answered this already. Wfd clearly state:
"Wakefield Trinity RLFC are inviting expressions of interest from individuals who may be interested in investing in the club.
As well as inviting those with potentially large amounts to invest, the club is intending to issue “Member shares” to supporters who may be interested in investing relatively modest amounts in tranches of £500. This may appeal to those who would like to feel a sense of ownership and be closer to the activities of the club than at present but are not seeking any voting participation or financial return and [udo not[/u have a desire to take an active part in the running of the club."
Member shares - not a shareholding. |
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