My goodness there is some tosh on here.

Let's scrap our rules and our systems because Union might just nick a few players from us???



Everyone, and I mean everyone, can see that there has been a massive increase in the Junior talent coming through in the game - not just in one club, but in many.



If someone wants to tweak the rules again to allow more money to go into Junior development, then that could be supported, but in the current economic climate, the salary cap for the first team should stay exactly as it is - and if lose a few, so be it.



Oh, and players like Owen Farrell, they have made their choices and that's up to them, but I'd be disappointed if I thought that Andy hadn't at least tried to persuede him to join a league club.

I'm waiting for you to prove me wrong about Farrell, come on tell me about the HUGE success he's been since his move to union, go on please, after all he did get the vote.

Don't give me that guff about players and not knowing Jonh, i have been around far too long and coached far too many players to be told by YOU.

In fact without people like me, you would struggle to have anything to preach about, of course we don't put any work in

I was not looking at it from a performance point of view simply a basic skills point of view inability to pass, accuratley, catch etc etc.

Its the corner stone skills of our game that we pride ourselves on as a code and we are now failing to do it with our best players in an International environment.

Unions success as a code is based upon a strong International game, the longer we fail in this and even worse alow young international players to leave our code and shrug our shoulders saying well its not my team the more our code will suffer.

There is no coincidence many Aussies were not too upset by the Kiwi win at the World Cup as they saw the bigger picture its a shame many in the UK cannot see that.

Is that not measured by performance. They can all do better - we know that is true!

In the first 18 months in the game he was injured due to a car crash, then at the age of 33 after very little exposure to the game, and it is a very very different game, he was selected for the World Champions playing several tests, and being selected in the World Cup squad playing in the World Cup finals for his country, who were at the time World Champions and got to the final of said tournament. He was also voted the best player in the World of Rugby League even though he was "past his best", how does that work?

Do you enjoy seeing players you have invested time and money in, in a sport you love basically entering into a code where the best they can hope for is to be picked up by a Union club? I do not.

I seriously do not think they can, not when put under pressure.

I do not know if you have Setanta but if you get a chance to see any of the NRL games you will see why. At our increasinly pedestrian pace in the competition we can do it fine, up the pace and the intensity to a reasonable level and we are all at see.

SL is very much the comfort zone for players, most of the players that went to Australia would not get a first team contract in the NRL due to the basic level of skill.

There is an article on Gaz Ellis floating about by Tim Sheens saying he was suprised the level of coaching he needed initially to get him up to an acceptable standard.

So why would you recommend any player wanting to make it in union to start with league, where they learn the basic skills of passing and tackling?

In fact, why would union even bother looking at the top league players if these skills are demonstrated to be so poor at international level?

As you say, you couldn't make it up, but it seems you just have....

Jonh they played the name and not the player, publicity stunt, if AF was good enough to play at that level then Unions worse that i thought



Please don't get the wrong idea, AF was a great player for his club and country and a fantastic role model for young players.



Of course not, why would i, but i don't agree with clubs bleating about loosing players when the sign second rate Aussies on huge contracts, thats not aimed at any one player.

Put or own house in order is the first step.

The standard of junior development is far superior in League, the skills taught to the juniors are far superior in Junior League development. The code is a code suited to developing the handling skills and running game of its players. Union knows this and has shifted its emphasis away from signing experienced players and are now targetting our young players.

Many of these players are nowhere near first team level yet but the Union clubs are targetting them, as I said there are 2 lads in the scholarship at Wakefield 1 who is a real talent who are already being tapped up.

5 years ago i think SL stopped improving as an onfield product, and started going backwards skill and ability wise and has done year on year sadly. The emphasis has shifted from established pro's to talented juniors so while many do not see it they remain oblivious to it, but it is happeneing every year and at every club, even Wakefield.

Yes, i was shocked to read the second article that came out in the build up to the first game, given the initial article that was posted on him from Sheens.

I actually disagree with you i do not think Faz was a great for his country he never produced the form he was capable of.

Once again in his final season at Wigan he was at the top of his form, any Wigan fan will tell you this so I do not see how you can say he was past his best. The way Wigan have capitulated since his departure I think shows just how good he was. If there was a dispensation in the Cap towards home produced players ie Products of the club, Wigan would never have allowed Faz to leave, the fact he took his son with him makes it an ever shorter sighted decision, but Wigan had to cash in, in an attept to strengthen the team in other areas due to shocking mismanagement of the cap, a move that meant as Faz left the paper over the cracks also vanished.

Nail on the head there mate

Even if it was the case does it not just show how open to the Union code they are.

The fact that they could take the best player in the world and GB captain and take him from League as was there want.

The worrying thing is that now they are after our prospects.

Did Wigan get any cash for Faz? Was he still on contract at the time? I think they got a decent wedge for him but can't be sure.

I know Ashton went for a fee.

Ashton ................! the name rings a bell but i just can not place it

I seem to recall figures around £1m being bandied about at the time, some from Saracens and some from thr RFU. It was a great move finanically for both Farrell and Wigan.

Ashton went for free, they paid a fortune for Faz.

I thought he went for a load but couldnt be sure.

and ever since the RU have been pretty quite IMHO we are always gonna loose a couple to the other code but when its a player off Smiths calibur i think we can all sleep safely at night.

You not rate Smith?

id have him at BV but the impact is a lot more low key than when they were picking Ashton s of our sport . IMHO

Have a look at the debacle that was the England RL World Cup performance for your answer.

And we won how many cups when Wigan were top bringing in Miles, Kenny, Renouf, Bell etc etc