Slugger, the investors of the £500k would decide whether they felt the club would be safe with the £500k invested. If they felt it still was in the clag then they would not invest the money, let the club go into Administration and then posibbly buy it with the £500k and have working capital to spare.

The share offer is not to secure the existing Board, its to secure the future of Wakefield Trinity and that future may well involve Administration or not and it may be a future in SL or the Championship.

I will be investing £1,000 and there isn't a tighter git than me but before the cash is converted into shares I and any other investor will be looking for some certainty that it will secure the club. If it isnt then I'm sure we will allow it to go into Administration.

Yes.

One club not far from us is alleged to owe £2m if the test case fails and I'm sure there will be others of equal magnitude. Apparantly ours is tiny in comparison but we never have had much of an image.

Not my field of expertise but don't you have to have some assets to liquidate in order to pay creditors.

Perhaps someone with knowledge of Insolvency could answer this.

If this really is a cunning plan by the RFL to get round the tax issue, then they're far more stupid than the morons I thought they were.

We still do. The unpaid remainder of the money for the ground (asuming this hasn't already been accounted for).

I would not be surprised if this is what they did. Remember, "Never Underestimate the Predictability of Stupidity"

Al Capone thought he could avoid paying tax and look what happened to him.

Seriously the game whould lose what little credibility it still is hanging on to.

I'm not sure how the govenrment would view an organised en masse move into admin in order to avoid paying 10s of millions in back taxes. I'm pretty sure that Sport England etc.. would be reviewing their backing of the sport.

Well finally we can agree on something, the RFL have cocked this sport right up.

Mind you I thought that Sir Rod had paid your tax bill I remember a statement from the clubs saying it had been paid and that the future was bright.

I was under the impression that this was for the backdated image rights, turns out I was incorrect although I’ve been informed it was still historic debt. Perhaps this bill is for last year’s tax, and apparently the agreement the club had with HMRC to pay in instalments has been ripped up and they are now demanding payment in full.

As they are with every other club in the game that had such pay plan agreements, the RFLs actions has undermined the stability of many clubs with this irresponsible act.

If the actions of the RFL in propping up the Wrexham club now mean that we potentially face going out of existence, rather than 'merely' into administration, then the share issue is a pretty straightforward choice, and has nothing to do with a SL future or a Championship future, just a future full stop.

Putting aside my view about the fact we should not have yet more unpaid tax bills, what I don't understand is that the HMRC are running the risk of getting much less than they are owed by this act. They had agreed a deal with the club on a payment schedule and should not renege on that agreement because of the RFL's shennigans.

Is it purely the tax man that has put us in this dire position or are there other things as well. This is what the club need to be open about

Well if that is the case really the club still only have themselves to blame for being so in debt to the tax man in the first place, it is always going to be a risky game owing that much money and there is always a chance they will demand it back.

Also the RFL could not really stop the Crusaders going into administration and I would have thought it is the fact that they did not the RFL letting them that has down graded the credit rating of RL teams. I suppose the other option would be for the RL to have paid their debts for them, and Im sure every one would have loved that. The 700,000 grand loan that every one is moaning about is a result of them stopping them going into administration the first time.

The RFL have been fools in giving special treatment to expansion teams, but this started long ago with no relegation and as many imports as you like.

No the clubs have undermined themselves buy being in debt, and if it effects every one why could they all not have spent within their means.

I think it's pretty clear to us all that the club has been run on a shoestring and we've walked along a knife edge financially. We’ve pulled up trees and produced rabbits and doves from every top hat in the county in order to survive. The unexpected revoking of the payment plan and demand for payment up front is something we just cannot service. The PI removed a planned £350K from the operating budget, The RFL refused to help via a £350K loan even after they had done the opposite for Crusaders (£700K). The uncertainty over our franchise seems to have cost us a new very wealthy backer and sponsorship has been hard to sell due to the same uncertainty.

This £700k loan to Crusaders keeps getting mentioned a lot. Is there any actual evidence of it?


I'm aware (from news reports and RFL statements) that Crusaders owed money to the RFL. And that an agreement was reached on payment (possibly part-payment) of it as a condition of their readmittance to SL this year. I'm not aware that the debt was as a result of a loan (apart from comments on these boards) - the RFL seemed to imply it was owed for services rendered. I'm also not aware of a source for the figure of £700k (apart from people writing it down on these boards).

You could hire one of the top consultancy firms in the world for 6 months and it wouldn't cost you GBP 700k for what effectively was one mans time

Dealing with HMRC and their "time to pay" agreements on a regular basis, they can't and wouldn't reverse any written agreement because of a third party matter.

The only way the agreement would cease to be in place is if the terms weren't adhered to (terms which will always include the payment of all future tax liabilities, together with the agreed instalments against arrears, as and when they fall due).

Interesting, so are the BOD still not being entirely honest. They need to issue a statement saying exactly what the money is to be used for.

The 700K was the costs run up by the RFL in effectivly running a SL club from its last days ay Bridgend till it was up and running at Wrexham. It was all kept quiet at the time and when anyone dared to ask question they were quickly shot down as anti expansionists. It would have probably all been washed under the carpet had they not gone bankrupt.

I wouldn't mind betting that due to this being the sum it cost the RFL last time, even more money has been given this time and no one has got the wind of it so far.

I know this is nothing to do with our plight but I hope it helps.

Quote ="tb"This £700k loan to Crusaders keeps getting mentioned a lot. Is there any actual evidence of it? I'm aware (from news reports and RFL statements) that Crusaders owed money to the RFL. And that an agreement was reached on payment (possibly part-payment) of it as a condition of their readmittance to SL this year. I'm not aware that the debt was as a result of a loan (apart from comments on these boards) - the RFL seemed to imply it was owed for services rendered. I'm also not aware of a source for the figure of £700k (apart from people writing it down on these boards).'" I don't know if the £700k figure is correct or not, but the 'loan' is the advance of funds to the club at the end of 2009 referred to in this article.... m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/dec/ ... pe=article The Wrexham people agreed to repay this funding and absolved Samuel of his liability. Needless to say, the advance funding was not repaid. The RFL have now converted it into an interest free loan over 10 years according to reports. So its not so much a case of the RFL giving Crusaders 'new' cash but allowing them to convert a current liability into a long-term one.

Quote ="tb"This £700k loan to Crusaders keeps getting mentioned a lot. Is there any actual evidence of it? I'm aware (from news reports and RFL statements) that Crusaders owed money to the RFL. And that an agreement was reached on payment (possibly part-payment) of it as a condition of their readmittance to SL this year. I'm not aware that the debt was as a result of a loan (apart from comments on these boards) - the RFL seemed to imply it was owed for services rendered. I'm also not aware of a source for the figure of £700k (apart from people writing it down on these boards).'" I don't know if the £700k figure is correct or not, but the 'loan' is the advance of funds to the club at the end of 2009 referred to in this article.... m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/dec/ ... pe=article The Wrexham people agreed to repay this funding and absolved Samuel of his liability. Needless to say, the advance funding was not repaid. The RFL have now converted it into an interest free loan over 10 years according to reports. So its not so much a case of the RFL giving Crusaders 'new' cash but allowing them to convert a current liability into a long-term one.

They would if it was within the bounds of a consortium agreement with, say, a sport's governing body and decided to pull out of that agreement.

In fairness I have not read all the previous 14 pages of posts so if someone has raised this then my apologies.
If this were to suceed and 500 people owned 50% of the club then would those 500 people be responsible for 50% of the clubs debts ?
I am one of the £25 shareholders and could be interested in participating but (and it is a big but) there is a lack of real information.
I was unable to attend the shareholders meeting for personal reasons though I would probably still be as confused if I had been there.
It appears that people are expected to agree because of their love for the club. Well maybe there has been one too many false dawns and at some stage you feel like shrugging your shoulders and walking away. This is sad but true.
I don't want to see our club die but my enthusiasm is wanning and I doubt I am alone.

bet me to it, looks that way to me.