I thnk thats the only way to build up trust from supporters and the only way the trust will work, its been on the minds of the steering group from day one and they have been very cautious in the way they've dealt with it.

Once again it needs to be said that its going to take time to build up trust and get a strong membership.

Apologies - I didn't make myself clear; I'm 100% supportive of the Trust and the proud owner of share number 66 - I think the approach that's been taken in terms of inviting the existing groups to the table is a good one, and I hope it works.

My post was aimed at RichieWarlord and the others who seem exasperated that the pre-existing supporters groups aren't immediately coming into the fold; the point I was trying to make is that from their perspective, the ST is the new kid on the block and as such, they're entitled to take some time before they make a decision about affiliating, or not.

As the inventor of the name WiSCA I can categorically say that the 'i' was small as it stood for nothing. Before WiSCA was WISA - and in that name the I was for independant. The name WiSCA was kind of borrowed from RoSPA with the name created to include the phrase 'Supporters Club' when the original merger took place.

There is much water yet to pass under the bridge, but before people write-off WiSCA, please remember the valuable work they have contributed to the club on match-days and beyond for many years - work which I'm sure the Trust would wish to embrace. WiSCA can, in effect, continue on their own path, as have SB, but under the umbrella of and sharing the benefits of the inter-relationships between all of the various groups therein.

Let us not be niaive though - there may well be disagreements along the way and the Trust won't please everyone all of the time, but that's the point - it's a fully democratic organisation formed under the protection of the Co-operative society - and as such it is open to people of all groups etc to join, vote and even stand for election. In time it's position will become clearer - but it is most definitely is the product of whatever we, the supporters, make it to be!

And the ST wouldn't have it any other way. There is no pressure on any group or individual to join, it wouldn't work otherwise. The more people that join the bigger the voice we the fans have. Any chairman would be silky not to listen to 80 90 or even 100% of the clubs fans.

P.s I'm the poor sole that ended up with writers cramp on Wednesday morning after all the certificates had been written.

Talking of WiSCA, does anyone know the number to ring to book a place on the coach for Friday?

And the ST wouldn't have it any other way. There is no pressure on any group or individual to join, it wouldn't work otherwise. The more people that join the bigger the voice we the fans have. Any chairman would be silky not to listen to 80 90 or even 100% of the clubs fans.

P.s I'm the poor sole that ended up with writers cramp on Wednesday morning after all the certificates had been written.

I know Im being thick here but what does this, or any of the supporters bodies, aim to achieve, and before anyone has a go its a genuine query, what are the actual aims of the relevant groups? I dont include the disabled supporters group in this as I know their aims and how they are going about achieving them.

Oh and before Al bans me I understand squadbuilder too!

From the website:

Mission Statement

To provide a democratic united voice for the supporters of Wakefield Trinity Wildcats and the Community it serves.

Trust Identity

Trust and Honesty, Respect and Integrity
Ensure that we act as a professional organisation respecting all individuals and their opinions promoting an honest environment based on fact.

Communication and Information
Act as a conduit for information between the club and the supporters ensuring this is in both directions.

Community and Unity
Support the club throughout the area in all age groups. We especially need to help the club promote themselves within the community and encourage the players to visit/help at schools and develop the junior support.

Sustainable and Endurable
Help support and safeguard the club to ensure it has a future, to help manage the supporter’s expectations.

Positive and Proactive
Promote the club to the supporters helping to be positive. We need to look to the future leading the rest of the Super League by setting the example. Wouldn’t it be good if the RFL set the targets for franchises on things our club has already achieved?

Objects

The Trust’s objectives are, either itself or through a subsidiary company or society trading for the benefit of the community and acting under its control:


■To strengthen the bonds between the club and the supporters of Wakefield Trinity Wildcats and the community it serves and to represent the interest of the supporters in the running of the club.


■To encourage the club to take account of the interests of its supporters and of the community it serves in its decisions.


■To encourage and promote the principle of supporter representation to and on the board of any company owning or controlling the club.

already read all that TRB and whilst its like someone starting a meeting and saying they are a facilitator I cant see a clear aim for the group, Wisca at some point I could as it was the ground, squadbuilder say what it is and its clear, whilst I seriously respect people like sandal cat and the clan, who i know are involved in this, this to me is an agenda, not a statement of intent.

Plenty of liason, voices to be heard, discussions to be had, but purpose??

Ultimately - to seek representation on the board - possibly even ownership of the club, but that is entirely subject to the position of the club and currently there are no opportunities for this.

What it can do for now is create a conduit - somewhere the fans can have an opinion with teeth and somewhere the club can go to for help. The idea / benefit of having all the supporters groups represented is to try and co-ordinate events and share resources etc.... but it was not intended to replace anyone and hence ALL the groups were invited and attended earlier meetings and remain invited, although clearly the events of the past 6 months have been difficult for many adjust to.

to be fair for a supporters trust to get ownership of a club the club would have to be in a pretty dire situation, thanks anyway phil, but I would like to have seen aims that could be seen as judgeable such as;

The aim of the trust is to increase WLTRLFC core fan base by 1500 by 2013
The aim of the trust is to achieve through events and fundrasing 3 player sponsorships per year.
The aim of the trust is to see a lasting memorial placed in a position of prominance the the legends seen at belle vue by the time we leave said ground.

What you have to remember is that the ST was initially conceived when the preverbial had well and truly hit the fan. Since then AG has come in and it seems the club is on the up. It may be that it's 10 years (hopefully never) before it hits the fan again. If it does the ST will hopefully be in a position through it's members (the fans) to help the club out of it in what ever way. IMO the major short term aim of the ST is to open up the channels of communications out of and more importantly into the club. Look at how much the new regime have listened already. Surely this can only be aided by the formation of the ST.

This is Wakefield. Together we are stronger.

Fair enough - but I would consider them to be short term goals - and the Trust is aiming to be around for much longer than that. There is nothing to prevent those being goals within the Trust, but that is something for the committee to consider and for the moment the main target is to achieve sufficient membership for the machine to work properly.

I would suggest that if you wish to further the aims suggested, you get the attention of the current committee members and ask them to put the items before the committee. That might sound long winded, but it is felt that it is more important to get these things right than to rush things and get them wrong! If you ain't happy with the response you get - put yourself up for election, but you have to be a member first!



PS - as someone else posted - we can all remember a time when we were perfectly happy with our lot under the previous owners and there is much work to do to ensure that the future of this club really is secured on strong new foundations - albeit things are encouraging right now.

Everythings changed since this trust began Chappie, in the early days it maybe had a different role to play, thats all changed. That and the people who are setting this up are only a steering group (a good one mind

)

IMO it would hardly be fair to state long term aims from a steering group that will be standing down in August and then doing as its membership wishes from that point on.

I understand the question and thats the best way i can answer it, maybe someone else can offer a better explanation.

I accept that but it also true that the trust was being discussed before said solids hit the fan, if we had not found an owner then perhaps its purpose to me would have been clearer, ie find one or do the very best we as supporters can to keep the club alive.

as you also say its there is if anything goes wrong in the future, and whilst I accept that I question the value of a an army being formed that currently has no war to fight, and if a major benefactor comes to the table does it in fact deminish the need for this group? Am only asking I may be completely and utterly wrong, so please no one get on any horses!!

understood mate and also would like to make sure it does not undertmine squadbuilder, which I know you are involved with, for me its either have one big group which encompasses all these things or smaller roups for specific tasks, ie disabled group, SB. This seems a bit too woolly and unfocussed for me at present, but of course il be joining at some point and standing for election!!!

I can assure you that in no way does The Supporters Trust undermine Squadbuilder. Squadbuilders aims are still to help fund purchase and retention of junior players as witnessed by the recent junior signings including talented half back Liam Kay. The Trust and Squadbuilder monies will be kept in completely seperate accounts. The 3 committee members of Squadbuilder of myself, Phil Townend and Philip Hulme have all been instrumental in the formation of the Trust and see it as a communication vehicle between fans and the club as well as abody that safeguards the future of the club for the fans. hope that helps

think you are missing my point, its not about people like you and phil who give so much time and effort to every aspect of the club, and please dont take me as being disrespectful of that because im not, its about the average supporter having a focus for their time, and yes money, and having three or four groups to chose from.

as for a communication vehicle, think committees are a bit out of date on that front frankly the best vehicle for last 5 years has been on here, like it or not, its live its real and it has a daily input, in the information age there may be 100 people at a meeting and 150 waiting for the results of it to be posred on here.

sorry I think I did miss your point. The committee/ communication is vital as then fans may find out such things that the ground has been sold when it is sold not 3 years after and to the person that sold it and we maybe able to prevent such things happening again !

no worries!
for what its worth i think there is only one question pertinent to the future of WTRLFC and it is as follows;

The administration document showed a debt owing of 1.9 million pounds, what were the dates of incurance those debts, and to what extent did the business plan during the period of those debts ignore them, and secondary to this if the period is less than 4 years, what plans are in place to establish and maintain a top level rl team and achieve a revenue increase of 500k per annum so as to break even?

its sort of fundemantal.........

The thing is that it could take 6 or 12 month to form the Army (could also take a lot less). If it does hit the fan again we more than likely won't have that kind of time to form one. What you need to do is think of it as less of an Army but more a Reserve. Bit like the home guard with Sandal cat as Captain Mannering (sorry Ian) for the time being.

Hope this doesn't make me Pike

SC as mainwaring i like, although ive never thown beer over arthur lowe!

Im like sgt wilson.......do you think thats wise???

Never been referred to as Captain Mainwaring before



As has been said the current Board/Steering Group are just caretakers until the AGM when the new Board will be formed. As that's only 3 months away there is little point us laying down cast iron strategies - that will be for the new Board to determine. Some of the Steering Group will probably stand for election and some of us will stand down. The Trust is a truely democratic organisation and its Members will determine the Board and therefore its Policies provided they are in accordance with the Trust Rules.

Between now and the AGM I would dearly love to bring the Supporters Club and WiSCA together within the Trust. I do not know all the Politics involved and don't really want to, all I want to see is the Trust representing the Supporters of this Club and the SC and WiSCA within it.

We need the membership of the Trust to be truly reperesentitive and therefore we need as many members as possible. If you have not joined the Trust can I please urge you to give it serious consideration and join. The bigger we are the louder our voice and the more we are heard.

I don't see the issue with any group saying they support the general ideals as is now, but with them wanting to know more longer term at an open AGM before committing fully and have specific hopes for influencing them. There has been about four months since the initial ST meeting to state their place, either they support the ST ideals or they could state publically what they stand for or where they are. I apologise if I have missed an announcement. I don't know who they are, what different groups stand for etc.. If its former regime related, well they aren't here - it should be club related.

The problem I have is that duplication is unnecessary. Duplication is unnecessary, see it really is!

Idealistically, and I know life is different, I would hope that the ST would be able to support/represent the different groups, the Squadbuilder group, the Disabled Supporters group, the Transport to away games group, and any other groups that are 'single issue'. It would be a good way of keeping a uniform approach to publicising each of the groups through an umbrella organisation (ST) that would be able to put any issues to the Club through the ST. And also each group would be able to publicise its aims and hopes so it reaches a wider audience than currently does. They may actually be able to increase their effectiveness by doing so.

Just a slight correction to that statement so that the record doesn't get muddled, The Trust was conceived of and was being implemented for a number of months BEFORE the proverbial hit the fan!

The events of late 2010 lead to an early unveiling of the Trusts potential formation.