Sorry - which bit isn't true?

all of it, i doubt there is an SL club in more trouble than Bristol, Sarries are clearing out there are plenty of RU clubs in a bit of trouble

there isnt a huge different between a club like leeds and a club like leicester,

there are big clubs and little clubs each being able to spend more or less in both leagues,

its all very well saying if leicester want to pay a million a season to sign Rob Burrow there is nothing we can do,

but the same goes if leeds want to go pay delon armitage a million a year RU clubs could do nothing,

there isnt a massive difference in pay in this country between RU and RL, the difference comes only at international level through international payments and sponsorship

Massive thread, so not sure if it's been mentioned before, but have any of you noticed the agent involved in Farrell, Ashton et al....and now mentioned with Smith. And put two and two together?

"

1) Except that the RU salary cap is more than double the RL cap?


2) This is precisely where the threat comes from. If RU wants a top RL player the RFU will subsidise the move (as with Farrell) and no RL club could match it.

and a player roster twice the size


they could just not under an sc designed to restrict spending to that of the poorest clubs

Apologies if this has been covered, but I’m sure I’ve read it somewhere that the powers that be at the RFU are now getting worried about the threat of French RU and them enticing top players to play their trade in France. The RFU have used to carrot of representing England as a tool to encourage the players to remain in the English game. This suggests that they are unable to match the French RU clubs offer financially. This to me says it all about player movements.

Agents will always look to get the best deal for themselves and their client. The RU clubs are offering a small fortune to the better RL players to switch codes and they are equally being hit by French RU clubs offering even more money for their better players to go to France. It s a free market and they will go where the best deal is. The RU clubs have the added benefit of the financial backing of the RFU which league quite simply does not have.

I agree that some sort of SC alteration with regards to only 50% of a home grown academy products wage counting against the cap, but for different reasons. This should be used to encourage clubs to develop there own rather then relaying upon imports.

Chris Ashtons and Andy Farrells agent is Andy Clarke, brother of former Wigan player Phil Clarke.

Is he also Smiths agent?

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Chris Ashtons and Andy Farrells agent is Andy Clarke, brother of former Wigan player Phil Clarke. Is he also Smiths agent?'" www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby/200 ... -21209615/

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Chris Ashtons and Andy Farrells agent is Andy Clarke, brother of former Wigan player Phil Clarke. Is he also Smiths agent?'" www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby/200 ... -21209615/

Andy Clarke is a c~@k of the highest order, he basically made a name for himself off the back of his families name in League and is intent on pushing his players towards union, he was also behind the move that saw Rads almost go to Union.

He was also behind 'Mooregate' and will quite clearly stop at nothing in his race to earn a quick buck.

I agree with your description!

checkmate

so why arent smaller clubs challenging



no, it it is artificial way of bringing any club which excels either on or of the pitch back to the level of those who arent

maybe smaller teams should have a 10 point head start every game, make sure they dont have to rely on building a competitive squad to be competitive

leeds can invest in youth anyway, they can regulate wages anyway, you seem to be arguing that the only thing stopping paul caddick, a self made man worth hundreds of millions of pounds from suddenly forgetting all the business principles which got him there and wasting his money is the sc, which is a mental argument
why wouldnt it. and surely clubs shouldnt only need to do the same but better or something different so the game can evolve and move forward.

what you are proposing is stagnation



you should tell leigh, fax, salford, celtic, you, and cas that, because all have had seasons where they were hammered every week

a high cost to who. who is going to start massively overpaying players

and yet all this has happened whilst leeds and saints have been vastly superior, it has happened when leeds won back to back titles, when saints have won 4 challenge cups, when leeds won the league by a record margin, the evidence for your point just isnt there


who decides a players worth, what if he is worth more but cant be paid his worth because of the sc, what if hes leaving not because ru overpay but we underpay

Seen something on here saying the league gets less entertaining each season IMO could not be more wrong as I believe it gets better and better each season.

Ok there is Saints and Leeds then after that it’s more or less an even playing filed, most of the other teams have a chance of getting the top 8.

It is possible for the league to get more entertaining yet for the standard to drop.


What i want is the standards and entertainment to improve year on year, for the last 5 years i think standards have decreases year on year.


Regards unlimited spending, I do not want unlimited spending I am fully suportive of the cap, i just personally feel the cap should reward comercial success and player development not hinder it.

ok i've read some interesting thoughts here. 1. the salary cap will take a few years to actually come through onto the field.

2. the RFL needs to seriously look at the NFL system of administration. for example in the NFL all merchandise is sold on behalf of the NFL not of the clubs. at the end of the season all revenue from merchandise and tv is divided by 32 and given to each of the teams.

3. tv! now for you lot north of birmingham you probably don't appreciate that you can't see rugby on tv! i don't have sky sports so i can't see any rugby league unless its s challange cup match on bbc, or the superleague highlights show on the bbc red button. this needs to be seriously addressed by the powers that be. league is a summer sport what competition does it have for coverage on the bbc? athletics? cricket (mostly on sky) tennis and bowls!

4. how many league players since 2000 have actually had a huge impact in union? Jason Robinson, lets face the guy was the pure athlete and could have gone to the top in just about anything invovling his feet! any more? no big les lots of money for a move to union whats he actually done nothing, a few england caps which were probably part of the deal but nothing since. Andy Farrell? where do we begin they didn't know which position to put him in to behonest i thought he should have been made a flanker but no they put him at centre, great move at club level however what happend at international level he was shown to be serverly lacking pace for an international centre. anymore for anymore? a few big names have come across and none have made a huge impact.

5. how long will union keep paying BIG money for players who are the business in league but come to union and fail to live up to expectations. this is not because they are not as good as they appear to be its because the game is played in a way that doesn't suit they're skills. (its a different game)

6. the salary cap is ruining SL the RU SC is twice as high. ok lets look at this, the squad size is much bigger and some of the guys are only their for the sake of being there i'm talking front row replacements here, suitably trained front row replacements paid money to have their name on a sheet becuase the IRB regs say so.

the SC is designed to make the game more competitive, this wont happen overnight, it wont happen in a year it will be a gradual process but will improve the package product of superleague.

7. a competitive SL with a effective salary cap will be a fantastic product! the game now is a great viewer spectacle but lets face it its the same 4 clubs winning the titles.

my thoughts for the future are a shared revenue scheme to share all money raised between the clubs equally, and for god sake can we get some better tv exposure or even in the papers. daily newspapers you get 10 pages of . 1 page of union and 1 column of league.

surely the SLTV can be expanded to show games on the net? even if they are not live but downloaded. (a system used by the baseballs MLB.com) charge for a season pass or £2 for a download and again share the revenue throughout the league. this means more money for youth more money for stadiums and a decent footing to compete nationally with union

I don't believe the standard has dropped if anything it improves each year.

But if you believe the standards have gone down that is up to you but most people I speak to believe it get's better each and every season.

…so you know Eddie and Stevo quite well then Adam?

Who ever mentioned them?

I do not really watch one club and maybe because you watch Wakefield every week where the standards have improved then perhaps this is why you have come to this conclusion, i go to see different teams throughout the year and in my opinion across the board standards have slipped.

If you compare the interntaional sides from the last 10 years I think you will see the quality of player noticably drop off in the last 5 years.

If you look at the gulf in quality now from domestic SL to the first few games in the NRL it is scary.

I don't agree.

I watch Wakey every week and we have improved each season for the past few years IMO.

And across the board I think the standards have gone up. I see 2 games on sky each week, see highlights from every game and also go to the odd local game if I have the spare time if Wakey are not playing.

There are some quality players in the England team but none of them can play together well, seems like it's to do with the Leeds V Saints rival after recent stories. But if you look at the way they play in SL most of them are top quality players IMO.
So if that is the case DROP THEM and get some of the younger lads in who will play for the country not matter who they are playing with and I believe we would see a difference in performances.

Again its a question of quality. SL is there comfort zone and they look good because they are used to that pace and intensity of game. Up to 5 years ago for me this increased with the advent of SL but since then i think they have gone backwards.

The lack of basic skills ability to pass accuratley and catch has nothing to do with team cohesion in my opinion, it is the basic failings of the game in the UK. I would recommend watching of you get a chance the Cantebury v Manley game from round 1 of the NRL played in some of the worst rain i have ever seen, it was stunning the pace and skills on display in near impossible conditions, there are no quality outside backs in SL anymore we have not have halves for a long long time but they were a step up from what we have now, the backrowers in this country are also shocking compared to the names of the not too distant past.


In my opinion a failure to actually coach by most coaches, but i would say not Kear, has seen the skill level, pace and flair of players slip, and sadly from what i have seen this year the trend has continued.

I guess though we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

So what you saying about Kear?

As for NRL I find it rather boring, but maybe that is because I am used to SL? When I watched the world club final Manly blew Leeds away IMO

i have to agree with JonH on this one.

There are some great games in SL but i very rarely see bad games in the NRL (quality wise) and the skill levels are a step above, even before you get to State of Origin standard. If it wasn't for Wakey defying critics etc i would have watched alot less SL over the past 2 seasons and more NRL.

I heard Barry Mac going on about how stale and defence orientated the NRL is compared to the enetrtaining SL and i nearly spat out my coffee; i usually agree with what he says but on this i think he has been spending too much time with Eddie & Stevo.

I find myself agreeing slightly in what jonh is saying in regards to skill levels but i do feel the entertainment on off now is better than anytime in the SL era even though the skill levels may have dropped.

I can fully understand why richer clubs would want to spend more cash to improve their team and be the best.

I was against SL, i was against franchises and i was against the salary cap but i have been turned, the skill level in a game is not the be all and end all. You can not deny jon that there are more games now where the result is difficult to predict compared with just 3/4 years ago and it is making the game better for it, when Wigan where the all spending superpower they played marvellous rugby but my god what a boring 10 years we had as spectators, Wigan for me killed the challenge cup with the way they won it for fun, even Wigan fans at the time where saying how it was not the same.

If we stick with the salary cap as it is for say 2/3 years the leveling off will mean an even greater chance of other teams being able to win something, once we are on a level playing field where all clubs can spend the cap then we should look at increasing/altering it.