it is a worrying trend and those that are apathetic to the issue can be of they want to be, but the health of Wakefield is obviously dependant on the health of the game long term.

what can be done though?

RL clearly doesn't have the financial clout that union does, and the goes for down under as well, where NRL stars are constantly linked with union clubs; not just in Oz, but in France, Japan and other places. I don't think it is just down to the salary cap.

It is a fact that we as a code are going to have to rely less and less on imports to make up the numbers, the change in laws of the game ensure this.

It is also a fact that there are not enough quatity young players coming through the systems.

To have the best of that developing talent simply plucked from our code at will will harm the game, and the standard of play, which will in turn harm the backing of the game.

Any club trying to grow its fan base has to do so first and foremost with its onfield product and the quality and value for money, if the quality is not there the potential for growth is greatly reduced.

It attitudes of, its not my club so i do not care that really frustrates me.

To truely grow we need to breath life into the International game losing our best junior talent and International players weakens International game, and we are already struggling on this level.

I honestly do not think anyone who could not be worried by this trend can call themselves a rugby league fan.

If Leeds didn't pay Brent Webb however much money they are paying him, then they could affoad to offer Smith a better contract.

Rugby is a young mans game and you only really get a good 6-7 years when you earn good money (if you are a good player that is) so you can't blame Smith for trying to get the best money he can.

Perhaps some execptions need to be added to the cap, British players under 25 don't count towards it or something like that.

We fought for 100 years for a free gangway for players - it works both ways. There will always be players coming up through the ranks to replace them.....and that's because there is no serious union played in our 'heartlands' - Sale and Leeds excepted, just two clubs across the M62 corridor.

Kids aren't growing up wanting to play for Sandal or Stanley Rodillions are they?

The funnier story is union losing it's 'talent' to French RU where there is money galore to be had, and trying to force those players not to leave because they won't be watched by the England management team. Even the 'Man of Biscuit' has been linked with a cross-channel move.

No it works one way, and that is the problem.

The quality of our International team is reliant on both quantity and quality, we occasionally have quality but we never have the quantity.

The cap works in Australia as they have both, we in England do not. I have no idea how losing one of the British games best prospects who is a bloody good player already can be brushed off as ok as they will be others coming through.

Smith a few years ago was rated along with Inglis as the top prospect in World rugby league, Inglis kicked on Smith had a few lean years but he is now moving forward again and who knows where he could finish as a player.......well if he is any good in union like the rest of them.

As someone who has invested time and money into the development of junior players at 3 SL clubs including Wakefield this kind of it does not matter attitude stuns me.

I agree with most of what you say, the problem that union has is their game is not conducive to producing the type of athletes that the rugby league produces. For the very same reason the union game changes superb athletes that leave rugby league for rugby union into mortal men who are a pale shadow of the players they once were.

The irony in your statement is that young junior rugby league players could not be blamed for choosing to go to rugby union when rugby league clubs take the option of overseas players rather than give juniors a chance.

Strongly disagree with this statement, they simply turn them into athletes conditioned to play Union. From my personaly experiences they Union guys are bigger and stronger but lack the aerobic conditioning in the backs as they game does not need it to the same levels.

I think any young player with an eye on making the most money in Union, should start there career in League as the basic skills to be a good rugby player are taught in League, ie ball skills and defence then if you are deemed suitable and have the correct style and are any good tout yourself around the union ranks for the big money deal.

I really really dislike union but from what i see at the top level it is overtaking league as a game regards most of its aspects including basic skills, at least in England.

If we continue to allow our best juniors to cross over the tide will certainly shift in there favour.

I fully understand your point John, however isn't it the fantastic levels of athleticism and the highly honed rugby skills that rugby league demands of its players that attracts the rugby union clubs.

I too am speaking from experience and from the experiences of those close to me who have dealt with both games at the very highest level.

I can tell you that in the areas where the two games share commonality rugby union is a long way behind rugby league, frustratingly so for those whose professional grounding was in rugby league.

This is the case not because they lack the ability to practice those skills on the training field. It is because they are not required to practice those skills under the same intensity during a game.

The end result of this diminished demand is that the very skills, atrubutes and abilities that had attracted the rugby union clubs to rugby league players is inevitably eroded. The longer that player spends in the less demanding environment of rugby union the more those skills which once set him apart are lost.

Its not the size of the cap that matters, its how you use it !

That list of players that the glory hunter mentions are probably on peanuts. If Wigan gave them the same contracts as Jimmy Riddle and Co then they would make a long term career of League and not even consider Union.

Likewise with Smith, if he was on webbs contract there is no way he would be off to union.

Before we start taking knee jerk reactions with the cap, lets spend the money wisely on English youth and not put it in the pockets of highly paid Aussie has beens.

Exactly on all 3 counts.

My goodness there is some tosh on here.

Let's scrap our rules and our systems because Union might just nick a few players from us???



Everyone, and I mean everyone, can see that there has been a massive increase in the Junior talent coming through in the game - not just in one club, but in many.



If someone wants to tweak the rules again to allow more money to go into Junior development, then that could be supported, but in the current economic climate, the salary cap for the first team should stay exactly as it is - and if lose a few, so be it.



Oh, and players like Owen Farrell, they have made their choices and that's up to them, but I'd be disappointed if I thought that Andy hadn't at least tried to persuede him to join a league club.

I'm waiting for you to prove me wrong about Farrell, come on tell me about the HUGE success he's been since his move to union, go on please, after all he did get the vote.

Don't give me that guff about players and not knowing Jonh, i have been around far too long and coached far too many players to be told by YOU.

In fact without people like me, you would struggle to have anything to preach about, of course we don't put any work in

I was not looking at it from a performance point of view simply a basic skills point of view inability to pass, accuratley, catch etc etc.

Its the corner stone skills of our game that we pride ourselves on as a code and we are now failing to do it with our best players in an International environment.

Unions success as a code is based upon a strong International game, the longer we fail in this and even worse alow young international players to leave our code and shrug our shoulders saying well its not my team the more our code will suffer.

There is no coincidence many Aussies were not too upset by the Kiwi win at the World Cup as they saw the bigger picture its a shame many in the UK cannot see that.

Is that not measured by performance. They can all do better - we know that is true!

In the first 18 months in the game he was injured due to a car crash, then at the age of 33 after very little exposure to the game, and it is a very very different game, he was selected for the World Champions playing several tests, and being selected in the World Cup squad playing in the World Cup finals for his country, who were at the time World Champions and got to the final of said tournament. He was also voted the best player in the World of Rugby League even though he was "past his best", how does that work?

Do you enjoy seeing players you have invested time and money in, in a sport you love basically entering into a code where the best they can hope for is to be picked up by a Union club? I do not.

I seriously do not think they can, not when put under pressure.

I do not know if you have Setanta but if you get a chance to see any of the NRL games you will see why. At our increasinly pedestrian pace in the competition we can do it fine, up the pace and the intensity to a reasonable level and we are all at see.

SL is very much the comfort zone for players, most of the players that went to Australia would not get a first team contract in the NRL due to the basic level of skill.

There is an article on Gaz Ellis floating about by Tim Sheens saying he was suprised the level of coaching he needed initially to get him up to an acceptable standard.

So why would you recommend any player wanting to make it in union to start with league, where they learn the basic skills of passing and tackling?

In fact, why would union even bother looking at the top league players if these skills are demonstrated to be so poor at international level?

As you say, you couldn't make it up, but it seems you just have....

Jonh they played the name and not the player, publicity stunt, if AF was good enough to play at that level then Unions worse that i thought



Please don't get the wrong idea, AF was a great player for his club and country and a fantastic role model for young players.



Of course not, why would i, but i don't agree with clubs bleating about loosing players when the sign second rate Aussies on huge contracts, thats not aimed at any one player.

Put or own house in order is the first step.

The standard of junior development is far superior in League, the skills taught to the juniors are far superior in Junior League development. The code is a code suited to developing the handling skills and running game of its players. Union knows this and has shifted its emphasis away from signing experienced players and are now targetting our young players.

Many of these players are nowhere near first team level yet but the Union clubs are targetting them, as I said there are 2 lads in the scholarship at Wakefield 1 who is a real talent who are already being tapped up.

5 years ago i think SL stopped improving as an onfield product, and started going backwards skill and ability wise and has done year on year sadly. The emphasis has shifted from established pro's to talented juniors so while many do not see it they remain oblivious to it, but it is happeneing every year and at every club, even Wakefield.

Yes, i was shocked to read the second article that came out in the build up to the first game, given the initial article that was posted on him from Sheens.

I actually disagree with you i do not think Faz was a great for his country he never produced the form he was capable of.

Once again in his final season at Wigan he was at the top of his form, any Wigan fan will tell you this so I do not see how you can say he was past his best. The way Wigan have capitulated since his departure I think shows just how good he was. If there was a dispensation in the Cap towards home produced players ie Products of the club, Wigan would never have allowed Faz to leave, the fact he took his son with him makes it an ever shorter sighted decision, but Wigan had to cash in, in an attept to strengthen the team in other areas due to shocking mismanagement of the cap, a move that meant as Faz left the paper over the cracks also vanished.

Nail on the head there mate

Even if it was the case does it not just show how open to the Union code they are.

The fact that they could take the best player in the world and GB captain and take him from League as was there want.

The worrying thing is that now they are after our prospects.