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| So what we are saying is the Wakefield area has plenty of perfectably acceptable sporting facilities bar a sy new stadium (i notice a decision on Cas' will be made before the end of the year) and maybe a couple of 3G pitches which much of the target market for using these probably couldn't afford to anyway. Not that bad then really, glad you cleared that up.
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| Quote ="Theboyem"So what we are saying is the Wakefield area has plenty of perfectably acceptable sporting facilities bar a sy new stadium (i notice a decision on Cas' will be made before the end of the year) and maybe a couple of 3G pitches which much of the target market for using these probably couldn't afford to anyway. Not that bad then really, glad you cleared that up.'"
If that's what you think is being said then crack on and be happy about the Cities sporting provision.
What's actualy being said is that Wakefield is decades behind in terms of sporting provision whether it's Municipal, Educational or Professional.
I'm born and bred Wakefield and would love to be proud of the City in terms of its sporting prowess but the truth is our successes are historical. That isn't likely to change unless we start providing fit for purpose facilities for the youth of our City and we do something to protect the Sports Clubs, Rugby & Football, that offer inspiration to young kids
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| Quote ="The Avenger"If that's what you think is being said then crack on and be happy about the Cities sporting provision.
What's actualy being said is that Wakefield is decades behind in terms of sporting provision whether it's Municipal, Educational or Professional.
I'm born and bred Wakefield and would love to be proud of the City in terms of its sporting prowess but the truth is our successes are historical. That isn't likely to change unless we start providing fit for purpose facilities for the youth of our City and we do something to protect the Sports Clubs, Rugby & Football, that offer inspiration to young kids'"
Obviously it isn't perfect and could always be improved but neither is it as bleak as you make out, otherwise nobody would be taking part which patently is not the case. And who exactly is going to pay for all this fantastic sporting provision you so desperately desire? Please don't say the council, they are having to make cuts left right and centre as it is. Yes Yorkcourt should deliver on their promise and yes the council should be pushing them to do so but other than that given the constraints they have then other areas probably take priority right now. Anyway enough from me on this, it is boring me to tears. Ultimately it comes down to will YCP stick their hand in their pocket and pay their way. I hope so but i have a feeling they will continue to string this along, play us for fools and nothing will ever happen. Time will tell.
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| Quote ="Theboyem"Obviously it isn't perfect and could always be improved but neither is it as bleak as you make out, otherwise nobody would be taking part which patently is not the case. And who exactly is going to pay for all this fantastic sporting provision you so desperately desire? Please don't say the council, they are having to make cuts left right and centre as it is. Yes Yorkcourt should deliver on their promise and yes the council should be pushing them to do so but other than that given the constraints they have then other areas probably take priority right now. Anyway enough from me on this, it is boring me to tears. Ultimately it comes down to will YCP stick their hand in their pocket and pay their way. I hope so but i have a feeling they will continue to string this along, play us for fools and nothing will ever happen. Time will tell.'"
The point I'm making is that sports provision is poor, not none existant, it's very poor in comparison with other Cities, Towns and even smaller communities than that.
Why am I making this point,
Because Peter Box, despite Wakefield's poor sports provision, thinks it's not important enough to take his time up. He seems to think that Wakefield as a community can afford to have him, the Council Leader, shrug his shoulders and say "not my problem" in relation to YCPs wriggling out of their obligations.
That's my main point!
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| Quote ="TRB"
For those who say we have nothing, I repeat again:
We have a site with PP
We have an agreement that states we get a stadium in return for PP
We hope to have ACV status in BV shortly
We don't have any money just now, but we have a great mentor in Sir Rodney, we are working closely with the club, we believe the council are under some pressure to assist and we can cause delays, if not rejections, on NM should we need to.
'"
Out of interest is the developments planning permission full or still at a lower grade at this point?
If the section 106 isn't legally binding then there isn't actually an agreement though is there? It's not actually worth the paper it is written on. What there really is a perceived attempt to have the wool pulled over peoples eyes (including the s.o.s) which may take a legal battle to resolve. Costly and time consuming for everyone.
All the ACV will really achieve is buy 6 months of time if the bank wants to sell. Have they indicated that it is going to be put up for sale anytime soon? As if so then time on this really is of the essence and it being a 'few months' before any info comes to light may be too long. And if covenant on Belle Vue has been confirmed in place by the council anyway what difference does it make if NM is the No.1 target anyway? We cannot be kicked out in the meantime. Another reason why I would urge making a decision one way or other on which scheme is wanted and go for it. My call would be BV but the people closer to the workings would have to make that decision.
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| Quote ="The Avenger"The point I'm making is that sports provision is poor, not none existant, it's very poor in comparison with other Cities, Towns and even smaller communities than that.
Why am I making this point,
Because Peter Box, despite Wakefield's poor sports provision, thinks it's not important enough to take his time up. He seems to think that Wakefield as a community can afford to have him, the Council Leader, shrug his shoulders and say "not my problem" in relation to YCPs wriggling out of their obligations.
That's my main point!'"
Think we can agree on the point about the 'esteemed' Mr Box. I don't expect the council to be throwing money around on sporting development at this current time but i don't understand his reticence to support the scheme and help get the development built when it is going to cost the authority zilch? Unless of course, knowing it will also likely end up at Eric Pickles door, its success would impact on the hope of another club getting their own scheme built just down the road......
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| I was never in favour of Newmarket. Too far from where most supporters live. It may have resulted in a slight increase in away support due to easy access but we were falling in to the same trap as Salford who have alienated a lot of home support so crowds have been underwhelming despite megabucks spent on the team It's Belle Vue or the end of Trinity as far as I am concerned. Hence I was one of the first to sign the e petition.
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| Quote ="ball-in-hand"I was never in favour of Newmarket. Too far from where most supporters live. It may have resulted in a slight increase in away support due to easy access but we were falling in to the same trap as Salford who have alienated a lot of home support so crowds have been underwhelming despite megabucks spent on the team It's Belle Vue or the end of Trinity as far as I am concerned. Hence I was one of the first to sign the e petition.'"
Just a small point of order here.
Although the access at Salford is horrendous, they have just about doubled their attendances at their new ground.
Ok' there are other factors as to why their crowds have grown but, although a new ground would take some getting used to,
it would be a massive improvement on what we currently have at BV.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Just a small point of order here.
Although the access at Salford is horrendous, they have just about doubled their attendances at their new ground.
Ok' there are other factors as to why their crowds have grown but, although a new ground would take some getting used to,
it would be a massive improvement on what we currently have at BV.'"
Well I dont agree with you, gates have not got much better at all.At the willows they were getting three and half don't see much more
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| Quote ="bazzo44"Well I dont agree with you, gates have not got much better at all.At the willows they were getting three and half don't see much more'"
Wouldn't mind betting that any extra fans at the AJ Bell stadium are away supporters what find it far more access'able, especially Wire fans'.
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| Quote ="chissitt"Wouldn't mind betting that any extra fans at the AJ Bell stadium are away supporters what find it far more access'able, especially Wire fans'.'"
Spot on old lad
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| Quote ="chissitt"Wouldn't mind betting that any extra fans at the AJ Bell stadium are away supporters what find it far more access'able, especially Wire fans'.'"
That and the major investment of cash they got at the same time leading to some big name signings joining. That spiked interest and boosted their ticket sales. Without that influx i reckon the crowds would have been down.
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| It's a shame Trinity didn't/couldn't get in on the massive regeneration of eastern Wakefield that is City Fields. I reckon the development is crying out for a show piece item such as a new stadium.
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| Quote ="bazzo44"Well I dont agree with you, gates have not got much better at all.At the willows they were getting three and half don't see much more'"
Just had a quick look to see if they have gone up or not. This year at the new stadium they averaged 4587, the year before 3178 and the first year 5,666. In 2009 at the Willows they averaged 4,467, 2010 4,166 and the final year of there 4563. They had a boost in that first year at the new stadium but then had those financial difficulties and this year it's around what it was at the Willows. Small sample size mind.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Just a small point of order here.
Although the access at Salford is horrendous, they have just about doubled their attendances at their new ground.
Ok' there are other factors as to why their crowds have grown but, although a new ground would take some getting used to,
it would be a massive improvement on what we currently have at BV.'"
Salford attendances have not really shot up over the last two seasons since leaving The Willows and early indications suggest they will fall in 2015. A train of thought over the hill is that their electrician owner is prepared to take the club on the road for a full season and sever links with the AJ Bell Stadium altogether. Imagine trying to find the best place to play where there is the best chance of finding a new supporter base and more importantly for him a base where supporters appreciate his spending.
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| Seen a few pictures of fc United of Manchester's new stadium getting built and looks very impressive. If a non league fan owned club in an area overflowing with top class stadia and sports facilities can do it then surely we can do it. Come on lets get it sorted.
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| Quote ="M62 J30 TRINITY"Seen a few pictures of fc United of Manchester's new stadium getting built and looks very impressive. [u[u If a non league fan owned club in an area overflowing with top class stadia and sports facilities can do it then surely we can do it[/u[/u. Come on lets get it sorted.'"
I think the difference is the influence of some of the fans' what own it, fans such as Paul Scholes,Ryan Giggs,Nicky Butt and others. If we had the likes of them on our side anything could be possible.
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| Quote ="chissitt"I think the difference is the influence of some of the fans' what own it, fans such as Paul Scholes,Ryan Giggs,Nicky Butt and others. If we had the likes of them on our side anything could be possible.'"
They own Salford City FC, not FC United.
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| Quote ="imwakefieldtillidie"They own Salford City FC, not FC United.'"
Sorry my mistake ![Embarassed icon_surprised.gifops:](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//icon_redface.gif)
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| I was looking through the Governments Planning Advisory Service website and came across this paragraph.
Quote S106 Obligations
Legislation
Planning obligations under Section 106 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 (as amended), commonly known as =#FF0000s106 agreements, are a mechanism which make a development proposal acceptable in planning terms, that would not otherwise be acceptable. They are focused on site specific mitigation of the impact of development. S106 agreements are often referred to as 'developer contributions' along with highway contributions and the Community Infrastructure Levy.
'"
It was the words "Site Specific" that caught my eye!
Surely under whatever planning application YCP went for the "Site" is the same and there is an argument therefore that the "mitigation" agreed upon is still applicable!
YCP, WMDC and the SoS Office can't simply ignore it just because the Developer chose to submit a new application for the same site.
It is the same building, the same development on the same site therefore the "mitigation" required is still required in order to make the development "acceptable" irrespective of the new application.
Remember the determination, "SITE SPECIFIC" not Developer specific, not application specific, the mitigation required is "SITE SPECIFIC" !
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| Quote ="The Avenger"I was looking through the Governments Planning Advisory Service website and came across this paragraph.
It was the words "Site Specific" that caught my eye!
Surely under whatever planning application YCP went for the "Site" is the same and there is an argument therefore that the "mitigation" agreed upon is still applicable!
YCP, WMDC and the SoS Office can't simply ignore it just because the Developer chose to submit a new application for the same site.
It is the same building, the same development on the same site therefore the "mitigation" required is still required in order to make the development "acceptable" irrespective of the new application.
Remember the determination, "SITE SPECIFIC" not Developer specific, not application specific, the mitigation required is "SITE SPECIFIC" !'"
I think you're taking the meaning too literal. I read it as though the mitigation will vary dependant upon the site.
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| Quote ="Khlav Kalash"I think you're taking the meaning too literal. I read it as though the mitigation will vary dependant upon the site.'"
No the level of mitigation was dependent upon the size and shape of the development, if a totally new development which was less intrusive was proposed then pro rata the size and shape of the mitigation would reduce.
However, this building is exactly the same one proposed in the original application therefore the mitigation required should also be as the original.
The "Site Specific" requirement should have been applied by the WMDCs Planning Department when the 'backdoor' planning application came in from YCD. They missed it and granted planning permission, there should be a review of that decision despite construction having commenced.
The fact that YCP had agreed to the original mitigation should negate any counter argument that they do not now have enough funds to meet their obligation, their numbers stacked up when it suited them during the PI so why would they be so different now, unless of course they were lying to the SoS Officer during the Inquiry and never intended to pay for the mitigation.
YCP would need to be very very careful about their statements because they're likely to be damned one way or the other.
What we need is the political will to revisit this whole shambles and force YCP to meet their obligations or offer a substantial alternative!
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| Quote ="Khlav Kalash"I think you're taking the meaning too literal. I read it as though the mitigation will vary dependant upon the site.'"
Funny how people interpret things. My reading of it was that the mitigation was "site specific" ie had to be applied at that site - in other words a redevelopment of Belle Vue would not be possible under this agreement. I'm not sure that makes sense thinking about it but just proves how things can be interpreted differently.
I'm not a lawyer, or a planner, or a developer so don't know, but that was my initial thought.
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| Didn't the change in land classifcation after the inquiry due to the LDF have something to do with it all hence the Newcold build?
Anyway i read it to mean that it is just explaining what a section 106 agreement is, i.e. a site specific mitigation document making a planning application that wouldn't normally be passed, passable . After that it is all about what is in the 106 document itself and it seems the one for Newmarket is worded badly enough to give the developer a get out clause.
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| Quote ="Fordy"Funny how people interpret things. My reading of it was that the mitigation was "site specific" ie had to be applied at that site - in other words a redevelopment of Belle Vue would not be possible under this agreement. I'm not sure that makes sense thinking about it but just proves how things can be interpreted differently.
I'm not a lawyer, or a planner, or a developer so don't know, but that was my initial thought.'"
Me neither and I'll stand being corrected by those more in the know!
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