The Tories obviously didn't put they were going to privatise the NHS in their Manifesto, but that doesn't stop them doing it!

if they don't like the way they went.

Sacred Cow.
It does matter in my opinion as to which country is relevant as I would like to restrict entry as much as possible from everywhere and get some of the lard s we have doing the jobs the Eastern Europeans are doing or stop their dole. We are in the EU and abide by their rules. Not Schengen though. Africans are coming into the EU as it is a soft touch. Roma families are coming here because we are a soft touch.
I have spent 40 years in International business. I know my geography and do not need lecturing by you.
If we leave the EU, we are in a better place to restrict access and impose our own laws. We can create our own "human rights" interpretation and repatriate as applicable.
When we joined the EU, many hundreds of experienced HMRC officers were put to grass. They controlled immigration and smuggling, that experience has been lost.
It is time to look after ourselves and prioritise housing and welfare to people who have lived and paid taxes here.
Australia is a good example to follow. My view thanks. LEAVE.

Government outsourced the new builds to Balfour beatty through a finance deal wih RBS, think they did have around 50% ownership of the builds as well up until last year when they sold them to HSBC and so did RBS. So yes both pinderfields & ponte is fully owned by HSBC and leased to the NHS at a extortionate price If thats not privatization by the Labour government then what is.

Quote ="KevW60349"Vote LEAVE or you will be waving goodbye to the NHS as we know it. in ongoing talks between the EU and USA on a Transatlantic Trade & Investment Partnership [T.T.I.P hundreds of leaked documents just released show talks between the EU and USA on a T.T.I.P will lead to the NHS being privatised or dismantled. one section of the documents make clear an agreement will seek an end to all State intervention and a review of all State owned enterprises or monopolies. the USA private medical firms will be rubbing their hands with glee if we vote to stay in the EU. VOTE LEAVE'" Or maybe not. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36332415 Downing Street has headed off a revolt over the Queen's Speech by saying it will accept a move to exclude the NHS from a controversial EU-US trade deal.

Quote ="KevW60349"Vote LEAVE or you will be waving goodbye to the NHS as we know it. in ongoing talks between the EU and USA on a Transatlantic Trade & Investment Partnership [T.T.I.P hundreds of leaked documents just released show talks between the EU and USA on a T.T.I.P will lead to the NHS being privatised or dismantled. one section of the documents make clear an agreement will seek an end to all State intervention and a review of all State owned enterprises or monopolies. the USA private medical firms will be rubbing their hands with glee if we vote to stay in the EU. VOTE LEAVE'" Or maybe not. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36332415 Downing Street has headed off a revolt over the Queen's Speech by saying it will accept a move to exclude the NHS from a controversial EU-US trade deal.

We can already do that for non-EU migration, and it's made no appreciable difference; the figure continues to rise and is significantly above the targets the government set for itself.

Movement of people is a feature of modern life - and as funky as it sounds to suggest that all the jobs being done by immigrants should be given to UK nationals who are currently on benefits, it just doesn't work like that; the reason those jobs go to immigrants is because UK nationals don't apply and immigrants do; so they come here to work, pay taxes and buy things - and in so doing, contribute to the upkeep of the welfare state, the largest proportion of which is spent on in-work benefits and pensions.

Bren, My view is different. If the system worked, we would not have so many non EU economic migrants. We also have many EU economic migrants freeloading but I agree, we have plenty of hardworking EU migrants and I have employed Poles who put our local workers to shame with their dedication.
Local English people do not apply for the jobs in Lincolnshire for example, because they are idle and cossetted by a nanny state and prefer not to work in cold and wet.
The roads and streets are full of litter, we could make people earn their dole. We are just used to a system that gives to freeloaders.
I have always preferred a coalition government system where a rotation of leader takes place every three years and avoids having to put up with people like Thatcher, Blair and Cameron and involves people working for the country.
LEAVE.

Salford 16 Trinity 28

x

So your real issue is the benefit system - which in some cases does indeed offer a disincentive to work; in my business for example, when the NLW was announced, I had some part time staff ask if they could continue to be paid at the old rate, as the NLW would reduce their working tax credits. What they didn't realise of course, was that was exactly what was intended - reduce the benefit bill by targeting those people who are actually trying to improve their lot, but who don't vote - younger people and women.

Anyhow - the welfare state is not an EU matter, so you can happily switch your vote to remain; and I hope you're right about that scoreline!

Sorry, are we suggesting that all EU migrants are in work and none are claiming benefits?

Do those migrants that are given priority housing status all pay full rent and council tax?

Are saying that all migrant children seeking places in school are from families that have working parents?

Are all the migrants who use our NHS services contributing via National Insurance?

As has just been said above, we are already in a position to do that to the counties you mentioned in your first post but it makes no difference as they still come. That part has no relevence on the EU vote which is what i was pointing out, it matters not what the result is it won't change that. And as it's pretty much certain we will end up signing a free trade agreement with the EU if we voted to leave to enable companies to carry on trading to the same levels as before and not cause an economic meltdown then we will also have to accept their rules in this, one of which is freedom of movement to work. The leave campaign don't like mentioning this bit though but essentially it means things carrying on as before but with no say in the matter.
As you say we are not though signed up to the Schengen Agreement so we have still got our border controls, this will not change thanks to our ongoing opt-out so i'm not sure what you are getting at with the HMRC comment we still have border police and immigration officers that are experienced and very competent in their jobs.
You mention Australia as a good example to follow but it's worth noting that they have a higher net migration that we do and as a percentage nearly twice as many of their population are foreign born as opposed to the UK.
Personally, yes i'd like to see tougher controls on immigration and in particular what people are entitled to once here but the way to do it is work within the EU to influence it, not try and shout from outside whilst the flow continues anyway. I would definately tighten up the rules for non-EU now as we can already do that and a points based system would be fine for that. But we have to be careful not to go too far and put off the people who also benefit the country. It's a fine line. It's a cosmopolitan world these days and things have moved on. as a country we have to move with the times otherwise we will get left far behind.

I agree to a degree with both Bren and Sacred Cow over some issues and Avenger makes good points.
People are coming here because our system is easy to exploit. It is obviously easier for EU migrants because the journey is less hazardous. To visit a council office, knock on the door and ask for a house and benefits.
If we keep building houses continually, green belt and countryside will disappear and communities will break down. Our tolerance levels are too high and our "Christian" society abused by Muslims wishing to usurp our laws with Sharia and it would just get worse.
In the north, we will have all driven around Dewsbury, Batley, Bradford and Blackburn and witnessed how integration does not work from Asian immigration.
Part of my family live in Lincolnshire and Boston as an example is on the verge of imploding from EU immigration. If we REMAIN, and welcome Turkey and Albania, we will have a major disaster on our hands.
The Remain campaign is full of statistical lies and the Leave campaign fractured to say the least.

Clearly not all migrants are in work and contributing to the UK economy and yes and people with children will want to try and send them to school.

Equally there are plenty who are working hard to improve their life chances and who contribute to the UK economy.

The Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph certainly put their own twist on the population, especially those who may not have been born in this country.

Without question, something needs to be done about mass migration and somehow trying to prevent the situation with "boat loads" of people risking their lives and trying to float towards Europe.
It's hard for people with "stable" lives to appreciate the desperation and risk that some of the migrants go through to try and get to Europe.

Not all - but many more do than don't; the statistics are out there - EU migrants come here primarily to work; and the taxes they pay far outweigh the benefits paid to those who don't.

And there is no priority housing status for immigrants - that's a myth.

Confirmed, I work in housing across West Yorkshire and housing priority is awarded to:

1) Homeless
2) Ex-Servicemen
3) Disabled
4) Overcrowded

Many places you have to have lived in the area for 3 of the last 5 years to get any kind if priority (ex servicemen rightly excepted)

To quote Bren. And there is no priority housing status for immigrants- that's a myth.

And TrinityIHC confirms that's right.

But then says priority is firstly given to the homeless, aren't immigrants homeless when they apply for housing? Assuming TrinityIHC has the priorities in the correct numerical order, the immigrants would be top of the list over ex servicemen. Diabolical if true.

My point is, if we had a points based immigration system as Australia do, we could decide who comes here to settle. If migrants have jobs to come to or a skill set that we need then they would successfully apply while those who don't wouldn't be allowed into the country.

Those who are working are welcome those who aren't are placing even greater stress on the infrastructures of the country at the expense of the natural UK population.

Whilst in the EU it is impossible to control our borders in this way!

We don't necessarily need skillsets - just people willing to work, often in low paid, unskilled jobs. The health and social care sector for example, which includes the NHS, currently employs around 100,000 migrant workers - without them, the system would collapse.

As for the points-based system - as I've repeatedly said, we have that ability currently for non-EU migrants, yet the numbers have consistently gone up; the people telling you that would work, are presiding over a situation in which it already doesn't.

And on the infrastructure stress - the people causing the majority of that are the elderly and the obese; Brexit won't do anything to improve that.

No - as I understand it, if you've made yourself homeless, you don't get the priority status; and leaving a country in which you had somewhere to live to be homeless in the UK, is making yourself homeless.

The statistics show that migrants are using the private rental market, not social housing.

Of course it works, Australia and many other countries have used it for decades. As far as unskilled workers goes, that's something we need to fix internally, we don't need to have the EU free gangway as an answer for that!

So a net 330,000 immigrants per year isn't putting any stress on infrastructure, Give your head a shake!

As I said earlier, it isn't large gangs of migrant doctors and nurses that intimidate me when I walk through the Ridings centre of a Tuesday afternoon!

No it's not and I suspect you know that!

don't immigrants get obese and old, one of the biggest strains currently on the NHS is type 2 diabetes and the asian and black population tend to be more susceptible to this disease.

But the Asian and Black populations won't be affected if we leave the EU!!!

They will if introduce a points system after leaving