The point being, when you look at Khlav's list.....would a new coach improve that ratio?

At the end of the day coaching can only get you so far, the players need to go out and perform. For me in the Bradford game the problems were down to individual errors which you cant blame on the coach rather than poor coaching.

Looking at that I feel the Catalans game will shappe our season. Despite it probably being the best possible time to play them I don't expect anything from the wigan game other than a much improved performance. Catalans host Leeds this week so another defeat there and the pressure will be on them just as much as us. London we should win but as it stands now the others look very tough. We need to make big strides over the next 3 games and pick up at least 4 points otherwise we are going to be left behind. If we then get through the easter period with just a win or two to our name then maybe it will be time for a change.

Again, why let Agar coach these tough games that we are not expecting him to win, and then change when he doesn't.
For me, if you decide at the beginning of the seaon that he is your coach, give him chance to do his job before getting rid.

didn't expect to log on today and see this still being fairly hotly debated!

from what I've read here on topic I can't see many differing opinions to be honest, just different views on the variables.

As a Cas fan I think we've discovered the secret to playing at our best - DP is very much an organiser, and has got the team realy finely tuned in terms of game management - we have been guilty of throwing games away in the past 3/4 years and Sunday was the first time I've felt aat ease being a score in front.

The point I'm making is that, IMO, RA doesn't seem to be much of an organiser in that sense. This is a year where getting ovr that wining post means everything - performance aside, WTW coud be on 4 points now rather than 0 if chances were taken, it'll be a regret to look back and see 5/6 games that were lost when they were inches from being won

Dropped balls and ball reefing aside, the tactics in that game were some of the worst I've seen. The attack was predictable, slow, and completly toothless in the main. This is sort of understandable for now, I guess if players aren't up to scratch just yet then it will be very cautious and the execution will be off.

A question none of us can answer though....

Was the attack so turgid because :

the tactics were off?
the players are still unsure of calls/plays?
the players have no faith in the plays?

On the evidence I'd say a mixture of the three to be honest - bringing Sammut on lead to:

bringing off a SR
moving your S/O to centre
moving your centre to SR.

If RA sticks with that as a game plan then you're certain to go down for me - no wonder the attack was totally muddled up, and that must surely lead to little mistakes in the defensive line too.

All this is irrelevant however when your stats were 31 missed tackles and 16 knock on's. Wayne Bennett and Vince Karalius' love child couldn't help you with that.

Based on the constant struggle for field position it was tough to really show what your last tackle plays were cause you rarely made it to the 6th, so the water is a little clouded really.

It's personal opinion - does RA inspire me? Not really. Does RA have a good record? Hit and miss... In honesty I'd say RA has had a 7 week period where you've looked like a quality side. if those 7 wns had've been 2 wins I think he'd have gone by now.

I don't think it's a decision that can be made at the moment - I think the pro's of keeping him by far outweigh the con's. There's no guarantee that a change of coach is the answer, JUST yet.

Either way, if you can get your first win soon you've a decent first 17 that IMO is better than 13th (albeit not by a massive margin) and I'm sure some more will follow.

HKR showed yesterday that results are possible from any position against any team really - I'm certain you'll be behind your team and coach cause it's 2nd nature to a RL fan.

It sounds patrnising but it's so easy to get carried away after a defeat in a game you could've easily won. I'm sure if you give London a thumping the mood will change - not only on here and the terraces but in the squad itself.

I'm not sure that, 3 months ago, you expected any different to this anyway? From being written off you've been talking of your potential to rattle a few cages this season - don't dwell on the negatives just yet

You've just answered your own question, i'd give him these games to give him the chance to do his job. Before the start of the season I would have hoped us to be probably on 4 wins from the first ten games, with Wigan, Saints, Leeds & Hudds unlikely, Salford, Hull KR & Cas possibles and Bradford, Catalan & London as should wins. If Agar can get the results to keep us in touch from these fixtures the he has done his job. If we only win one or two he hasn't and maybe we will need to look and see if there is an alternative option that could push us on before it is too late. I genuinely hope he gets us the wins and all this is immaterial, but time will tell.

The point is I don’t believe with Agar Trinity will get those three/four wins (if I’m wrong I’ll be more than happy). A new coach isn’t guaranteed to get them either but at least there could be a chance they might. My view isn’t based on the two opening games of the season. It’s based on 50 odd games of seeing the same mistakes from a varying set of players, the same appalling game management from the team, the same crap last tackle plays, the same baffling tactics of playing with 16 men for 65/70 minutes of the match, the same players getting chance over chance whilst others are overlooked, the same weak defence (although this has marginally improved in the first two games).


Anyhow he’s safe (if Trinity were to lose to London his position may be reviewed) so I’ll just have to shut up and move on.

James Elston signed him up and he didn't get much right did he.

If we don't buck up we'll be relegated so lets hope we do and sharpish.

Just out of interest I wonder how many points we need for safety. I would estimate at least 16.

R.A. had a 7 match period where, through injury to Aiton, he was forced to play Andy Ellis. Andy Ellis effictively landed us with another 5 years of pergatory.

And at the same time got himself shipped off to Fev. Another move I still don't fully understand.

I think the upset over Bradford has passed now, and to be fair Vasty made it very clear he was basing his point over 2 seasons not 2 games.

But on that note, in terms of what people think Agar's team should and shouldn't do, it's as much a question of our possibly unrealistic expectations as much as what he achieves. Of course that is subjective.

Some expected a win against Bradford but we've lost the last 4 against them, home and away. They've had some off field issues, but less on field than us. Losing Sammut possible disrupted us more than them as he wasn't in their team the week before anyway.

Cas people are saying will be hard but we have won 4 out of 6
Catalan we've beaten twice (of course at home)
Hull KR we have a 50% win rate
Widnes we've beaten 4 times home and away

Based on all the stats, and ignoring Salford having a new team we should get 2 points at Salford, Catalan, London and Cas. Some of the others are 50-50 some are nailed on loss (in betting terms rather than actual game as of course there is a chance)
So we lost to Salford but as said they have a new team so there is a reason behind that and we still have the others to go.
The alternative being that on form, we would have Salford at home, Widnes home and away, Cas away and Millennium, London home, which is 12 points right there. Knock Salford back so 10 points.
Given we have 50% records with Hull and Hull KR home and away, we have possible points there.

If the new team clicks it will click on hard grounds after a number of games, getting progressively better
So lets not write off our season yet.

I am actually still quite positive about what lies ahead. We have missed an opportunity to get 2 points, from a team that we are competing for position with. But if we really see ourselves as better than them, as we clearly do if we were so adamant that we should have won, then they won't win more than us and they are due some docked points.
If the alternative is the case and they are in fact better than us, coach or not, then they'll be above us anyway.

I think there is a lot of race to run yet and I think we will take some unexpected scalps this year. It'll just take time. Hold tight.

I would also say the judgement on Agar is based on a "business case" comparing apples and ranges to get your answer

If it is all on him, and not on the players, then he should be judged on results.
People are saying we have not won as many as we should have, even though we were in 8th place (or 9th in terms of wins) and 11th, 1 point of the same finish.

Whether you think he should have done better, he has not been near the relegation zone in either year.
So why do we suddenly think this year is going to be different?

I've said many times that this year is about one thing and one thing only; survival. If RA achieves that, it's mission accomplished. I said it before the Salford game and was told (by Vasty) that I was probably aiming a little too low!

you must be off your rocker
you are in a lot worse position than you were last year
you had a close game against Salford which is also a team made up in the off season so they are still not the finished article and they beat you so when you play them again they will be better that they were 2 weeks ago it was there first league game also don't forget.
only team you will have a chance against this year is London and they will probley beat you


we on the other hand are 4 points up on you and London already Bradford will be getting a points deduction aswell so that should put us 4 up on them.
also if you weren't aware WE ARE TOP OF THE LEAGUE
happy relegation

Cas have a history of starting well and then finishing badly. We have a history of doing the opposite. Let's see what September brings.

I'm pretty certain, though you may know better, but I think the judgement on success is your position at the end of the season rather than after 2 games.
Enjoy your time at the top........don't look down.

Think we have found the clown who hired the no fear plane.

No Kinley it's not nonsense it's an opinion - not one of your majestic efforts but hey - what it is is the choice I'd make if it were down to me - unlike most on here I only feel I can talk for myself.

You'll get used to it, his arrogance has few bounds at time - sometimes he can be ok, so take the rough with the smoot, bit like you Mops

You really must have a chip on your shoulder to need to go to such length when you could just have said you don't agree - how sad that every point made on these forums becomes a them and us rather than just a debating point.

As for my quote, what is the point you are making exactly?

As far as I can tell I'm within my rights - this IS a P&R season and this is his BIGGEST TEST and he failed in spectacular style. Agar wasn't unlucky on Thursday he simply got it all wrong and in a P&R campaign there simply isn't room for that - Cummins managed to work it out with his (are you listening Bren) limited experience.

As for falling out with the game - I have. I don't travel away, support Internationals and will probably attend no more than 4 or 5 games this season. Does that exclude me having a well reasoned opinion? Sorry if it offends the rose tinted brigade but I've been here with this club before and it's never to early to worry.

So glad you find this thread a joke, let's see if you're still laughing in a couple of month time.

But an opinion based on no fact to back it up as a realistic alternative at this moment in time.
Get off your high horse it wasnt meant as in anyway knocking your point - just who you named.

It's based on a gut feeling - which I clearly state in my OP, not a mention of facts anywhere regarding Morrison - I won't hold my breath for an apology as I don't reckon you do them, as for the high horse…jeez the irony.

Not good to gloat...it is a long season

Gloating is part of the game, but I agree it's best done after rather than before the event.