Wigan regularly had 14 people on the pitch throughout the match yesterday. The water carrier/trainer was on for large portions of the game. The tactics that were being 'presumably' fed on from the sidelines via him helped them keep the upper hand throughout the game. The instructions that were being 'more than likely' passed on to the players enabled them to identify and take advantage of areas of weakness in our game.

I noticed a number of times he would talk to uninjured players and then that player would be involved in the next key move.

It is up to the referee to police this situation and monitor 'overuse' of the non-playing staff on the pitch. As the referee didn't object to this happening, then effectively they are permitting the use of a coach on the pitch. Well, there are two options then - moan about the ref (but we know that doesnt work) or...

We have this thing as a team of being the nice guys, the badly done by, etc.. but I think there comes a time when we need to get a bit of the action ourselves. When teams are getting away with the flat/slightly forward passes, then why aren't we wising up to that and doing the same? When teams are holding down longer than we do, why aren't we? When opposing teams are coaching from the pitch via the water carrier/trainer, why don't we? If other teams are seeking to gain an advantage in different ways, we need to do what we can to a) deal with it, and/or b) do the same.

Call it modern day coaching naivety if you like, but I think there may be a need for us to combat the tactics of the wiser teams.

The Wigan No11 spent so much time stood in our defensive line I was going to give him my shirt! Wigan were worthy winners but Kear is spot on they have some very unsporting tactics that don't help the game flow IMO.

The Wigan #11 who went off after 30 minutes and was seen wearing a leg brace at the end of the match?

No, the other one!!!

This is one of my biggest gripes, however the answer seems to be that the players ar not adaptable enough to do it off their own back, so maybe as you say it needs "coaching" from the water carrier.

The number of times in games gone by where we have been pinged early for laying on but continued to do it astounds me. Yesterday Wigan were warned for it after about 15-20 minutes and I don't think after that they gave away another penalty for laying on. We would have had a man in the bin if that was us.
Equally as you say when it is not getting picked up we seem to still be too nicey, nicey and want to jump up and let them play.

JK should be picking up on things like this (after all he has a great vantage point to do so) and getting a message on to the boys.

I don't agree that we should be copying these tactics, for the same reasons that we shouldn't be throwing deliberate forward passes, clamping an arm in the tackle to milk a penalty, applying pressure to our opponents joints, gang-tackling, sending the water carrier on to run past the kicker or any other of the questionable practices that Wigan are being coached for.

Their win at all costs mentality is spoiling the game - the sooner Maguire bogs off back to the NRL, the better.

Cant understand people complaining about water carriers going on against Wigan. On a day like that clubs have a responsibility to make sure the players take on plenty of water. I know they were coaching too but this is part of the game now.

You would have a point if he gave them any water, he cleary did not on many "visits" to the field.

I don't blame them, they get away with it, its the 4th officials job to control it surely.

Suppose a solution would be to have official water carriers not linked to either club. This would remove any accusations of coaching during the game. They could double up as messengers when the coach wishes to make a interchange.

Too complicated in terms of who would pay for it and who would manage them etc.

A more realistic solution is to apply the entirely reasonable expectation that clubs won't cheat; unfortunately though, some do.

Another realistic solution is to apply the entirely reasonable expectation that the ref may apply some kind of logic and stop it from happening "too" much.

Good points, in that case a much simpler and cheaper solution would be to place some gaffa tape over the gob of anyone who enters the field of play whilst the game is underway who isn't a player or an official.

I think this is a great rule, although would argue that it needs applying to some of the "officials" too.

Remember Gary Mercer, he spent more time on the pitch with a water bottle than he ever did playing rugby.
It doesn't matter if we're winning, but the laying on was ridiculous as was the "american football"

It's Colin Sanctuary who comes on for us with the water bottles and not a coach.

It was picked up during the Brisbane game at the weekend by the commentators, Allan Langer was on the pitch all the time coaching the players. At one point, I think it was Stirling who said that "Alfie is going to put a player through a gap in a minute".

If we still had Nigel Wright then he could do this for us, it's part of the modern game like it or not.

It won't be long until someone develops a scrum cap with built in ear phones, with a direct feed to the coach in the stands, NFL style.

Was it the same water carrier who ran in front of the kicker as he was getting ready during the Saints game, good old Mr Hampson?

It was Mike Forshaw in previous seasons who was never off.

Simple solution is that they are not allowed on unless they are carrying water, and are not allowed to speak to a player. Or something.

To be fair to Maguire, the pie eaters have been using the "14th man" to direct play since Brian Noble was there (most of the time with former Wakefield player Mike Forshaw being the "guilty" man).

when Forshaw ran in front for the saints kicker it just proves to what lengths Wigan are prepared to drop to so the can retain the league

it not difficult is it, two water boys on either side of the side line for each team waiting for players to come to them instead

I don't have a problem with in-game coaching. It's just the sight of the extra man that niggles me.

Doesn't really bother me but when Waterboys are pointing the predicted direction of play out like Albert Talipeau did then it makes the game look a laughing stock.

Rugby - whether its union or league - is dominated not only by the most skillful, strongest and aggresive , but also by the best cheats. Not your football type of cheat - sly and dishonest - but noble and sometimes admirable cheats. Blokes who are prepared to put bodies and limbs in dangerous areas, and even their place on the pitch, all for the cause of their team and mates. Of course, referees don't always recognise the craftiness so the players will get away with what they can - and that includes the 'whole team' !

With respect - my ar5e; there is nothing noble or admirable about the style of play that has emanated out of Wigan in the Maguire era; it makes for a singularly unedifying spectacle and is bad for the game.

With respect my comment was not about Wigan in particular but rather a generic comment about achieving success in a highly competitive game. You are indeed right, some of the Wigan tactics have been unsightly and unwelcome - chicken whatever its called, tackling at stationary knees - but i still stand by 'noble cheats' from both codes who were also great players - Dallaglio, Farrell, Ellery, Martin Johnson and of course many others!

well, im just glad that some teams this year have stuck the middle finger at wigan's tatics