Hi Could someone please explain to me why we are the only club that appears to be hit with these ongoing payments for the tax man. Do you think other clubs will be in the same situation soon?

we don't pay ours!!!!!!!
this one seems to have come about as a result of the HMRC getting y after Crusaders went into admin, they have torn up our previous agreement.
i'm not sure if this is the one for the image rights or not, but no other clubs appear to have been hit for this, or at least have not fallen foul of not paying up anyway.
there is some legal issue with the rhinos contesting the amount owed by the clubs to HMRC over this, compared to RFU clubs, so maybe its on hold and we were the unlucky weakest link that got picked off first.

Pretty sure this isn't for image rights. That delight would be lurking round the corner should any investor wish to purchase the club before it goes into administration.

Other clubs have their tax bill issues. Oldham, Whitehaven, Blackpool(?) and the Crusaders.

The problem would seem to be that we rob Peter to pay Paul!

Without a wealthy backer, a huge active fan base or a stadium which is conducive to maximising revenue we don't have the capacity to meet every bill we receive with immediate payment.

The HMRC money was probably used to fire fight something else and when it eventually became due we couldn’t pay it, hence the payment plan which was then revoked by HMRC when the RFL aided and abetted Crusaders move to Administration costing the TAX man £440,000.

This is not the image rights bill which is expected to be around £130,000 IF Leeds Rhino's lose the test case or £19,500 if they win. I'm not too worried about the image rights for a number of reasons but the most important one's being: if we have to pay £130K we will be better off than every other club in the game as some have expected bills of £2.5Million or we have to pay £19.5K while some other clubs will be paying approx £400K.

Its a joke, bring on admin.

Quote ="kinleycat"we don't pay ours!!!!!!! this one seems to have come about as a result of the HMRC getting y after Crusaders went into admin, they have torn up our previous agreement. '" Quote ="The Clan"hence the payment plan which was then revoked by HMRC when the RFL aided and abetted Crusaders move to Administration costing the TAX man £440,000.'" or possibly not Quote ="WTWRLFC"“The club owes National Insurance and VAT from recent months and these figures have been included in a petition which will be heard at the High Court on 2nd February. We have been in dialogue with HMRC for a number of weeks and are disappointed that this petition has been served as we were hopeful of reaching a payment plan with them.”'" www.wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/2011/01/hmrc-update/ So, less the fault of Crusaders and the demon RFL with your board as innocent parties, and more …

Quote ="kinleycat"we don't pay ours!!!!!!! this one seems to have come about as a result of the HMRC getting y after Crusaders went into admin, they have torn up our previous agreement. '" Quote ="The Clan"hence the payment plan which was then revoked by HMRC when the RFL aided and abetted Crusaders move to Administration costing the TAX man £440,000.'" or possibly not Quote ="WTWRLFC"“The club owes National Insurance and VAT from recent months and these figures have been included in a petition which will be heard at the High Court on 2nd February. We have been in dialogue with HMRC for a number of weeks and are disappointed that this petition has been served as we were hopeful of reaching a payment plan with them.”'" www.wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/2011/01/hmrc-update/ So, less the fault of Crusaders and the demon RFL with your board as innocent parties, and more …

How long would you quantify recent months? 2 months, 3 months, 6 months? If it’s the latter it doesn't alter the scenario suggested by The Clan, regardless, the tax bill is not and never was the fault of the Crusaders nor the RFL, no one ever suggested it was.

I beg to differ!

While I don't blame Crusaders or the RFL for the existence of the Tax bill, I am in no doubt whatsoever that their actions have undermined the clubs ability to negotiate with HMRC.




No need for the condescending tone either!

It's his raison d'etre, he's got nowt else going for him

As someone argued quite convincingly on one of the other threads, either here or on the VT, it is pretty unheard of for HMRC to renege on a repayment plan because of the actions of a third party. If the repayment plan was torn up, it would be more likely to be because WTWRLFC defaulted on current payments, making them doubt the commitment to repay historic debt.

The statement on the club site, which I quoted above, suggests that that is indeed the case: having agreed a plan to repay historic debt, the club then failed to make it's next scheduled payment of current NI and VAT money. Crusaders and any part played by the RFL in their administration are, in light of your board's statement, a total red herring.

I get the feeling the latest bill will be the end of the club as we know it. I think it will be the end of the Richardsons and i just hope there is someone out there to take the club forward if and when we go into administration.

Administration doesnt stop liquidation, It does however allow a temporary repreive. If the HMRC decide they wont accept a deal the im afraid they will wind you up

This board is not going down that road, no debate, end of.


BIGAL1.

This will be the final nail in the clubs coffin in its current guise. We will enter administration in 10 days and then its fingers crossed time that the supposed interested parties move in and can take us forward. Thing is every day something sneaks out into the open which makes the situation look even worse, the BV and Cala homes/Yorkcourt situation being a case in point. Whether a buyer will go through with a deal depends just how many other skeletons the Richardsons have left in the closet though because I reckon the situation is far worse than any of us realise.

I can answer that very simply

We dont have a lot of cash and Ted Richardson runs the club like a market stall

The fact he has no money doesn't help either but if it was run properly regardles of revenue then we would bounce from one financial farce to the next

Do we even have a club accountant or does ted just bash the yearly and monthly forecasts on the back of a fag packet?

The guy is clearly desperate to sell his shares before some one that knows what they are doing buys the club out of administration for 1 English pound

No one’s trying to defend the current BoD here, least of all me, but neither am I going to ignore other factors that have exacerbated the problem.

There are a couple of ways to get HMRC on side,
One is by giving HMRC preferred creditor status under the rules of the competitions in which clubs play.
The second is for the RFL, as the governing body, to show that they will install and enforce heavy sanctions against any club seeking to avoid its TAX responsibilities through Administration.

In the absence of the first one being in place the HMRC look closely at the governing body complying with the second and will enter into a collective agreement on this understanding.

The second one is where the RFL have been complicit in aiding and abetting the Crusaders in their move into Administration thus costing the HMRC £440,353.

Further than that, the RFL then took steps to ensure that their own liabilities were covered by the phoenix company that bought the old Celtic Crusaders club from the Administrator.

That done, HMRC rightfully have zero confidence in the RFLs will or ability to protect HMRCs interests and thus Rugby League Clubs become a risk too far.

Clubs like Wakefield are refused the facility of a payment plan and their TAX becomes payable immediately.

A statement issued by Wakefield said: "The club owes national insurance and VAT from recent months and these figures have been included in a petition which will be heard at the High Court on 2nd February.

"We have been in dialogue with HMRC for a number of weeks and are disappointed that this petition has been served as we were hopeful of reaching a payment plan with them."

NIC? Does that include monies deducted from employees that was never the club's money?

VAT? So that will be money collected from gates and other income that was collected on behalf of HMRC and, again, was never the club's money?

Let's cut the garbage on all this - it would seem (as I have suggested on various occasions in the past) the club has been using money that was NOT ITS OWN to finance its operations. And cannot now pay it over to its rightful owner. If that is indeed so, how is that not theft? How can it be defended? If your employer cjose to not pay you but instead use your pay to pay its suppliers, how would you react? And I make this point about EVERY business that goes under owing PAYE and VAT and NIC - its not a dig just at the club - and no way is it a dig at you fans - you deserve far, far better than this.

Do you wonder why HMRC has lost its rag over clubs owing big arrears of these taxes?

No need for that either.

No one is seeking to excuse the BoD or mitigate their resposibility regarding the state of the clubs finances.
As I said in an earlier post, we have robbed Peter to pay Paul and gambled that money would be available to settle our debts when they became payable. Thats the type of gamble that can lead to only one end and its the fault of the BoD that we are where we are.

Whatever the reasons for doing this the BoD were wrong to do it and need to go!
I'd never be able to prove it but I'm not naive enough to think that Wakefield Trinity are the only club to be doing this or indeed the only business.

It is or at least it should be, and nobody is defending the club. this is the crap we have to put up with all the time, lightheartedly i have often said that the running of this club is criminal!!!
HMRC should report this as theft and actions should be taken against any individual concerned if that is the case.

now that Rodney Walkers donation has been turned into a loan, he'll now become a creditor for Wakefield Trinity, should they end up in administration.

so with 160k owed him, he will have a significant stake in the money owed. It may just be enough to affect outcomes of votes when the administrators put plans forward

remembering the Leeds United situation I think it was 75% of the creditors (based on money owed) needed before a resolution could be accepted.

Could it be the PAYE tax that has been deducted from the players wages has never actually reached HMRC?

Thats a little bit slanderous isn't it?

Be very careful.