either full tilt or PKR with no more than $10 buy in.

Hmm tend to disagree with pretty much all of what you've said regarding Cash games and tournaments really. Out of interest how long have you been playing the game and what stakes do you play at?

You'll always get muppets calling you for whatever reason be it irrationally with poop cards or a 'premium hand' in either situation. Unless a tournament is a turbo format or a cheap re-buy tournament it is always going to be about slowly building your stack, any kind of deep stack tournament that's not a fiver or whatever to buy into and that's what you'll read in any literature written about tournament play.

Also, regarding cash games I've not met anyone who is aiming to make a profit every hand. The rationale for most is to just finish a session in profit whether that consists of half an hour in a casino our multi-tabling all night at home. Often raising regularly and just looking for that one big pot from the fish on the table or the aggressive person who always tries to steal at the cut off when there's been nothing but a dodgy utg raise or something.



Not sure what kind of level tournament you're drawing this comparison to. Either way, if a player is just really aggressive in general or even just holding their favourite hand then they're more than happy to bet with that kind of money. I'm guessing you have little experience of cash games though because the dynamics of it are so incomparable to tournament play they may as well be different card games.

good call mate

PKR for me... are you a silver member on there?

Any buy in is fine with me.

Phil Ivey in the last 27 at the WSOP main event! ...he's 3rd at the moment!

I hope he wins it! He should final table.

I have enough of a vip level to set one up on william hill if that is any good as i dont play pkr or full tilt, they emailed me back and said that i can create a private table they just require numbers etc so would people be willing to say will hills is ok for them and a decent time and day i.e sat night 7pm or something like that, also would there be a chance to add this tourney on each board classing it as o/t or would mods remove it we really need as many as poss as will hills said if it is busy tourney say every month they will donate free buy ins to comps and gifts etc, also we could run a league on here and set a league up with points where we finish etc if i get shown enough response i will use my poker points to set a tourney up
Thanks Andy

Obviously I dont play massive stakes and I'm not some sort of superstar





You seem to have missed my point, in a tournament once you are out thats it, your out (obviously not including re-buys etc). That can happen when you have pocket Aces (as has happened to me several times) if someone calls you with nothing and hits the cards they need. That to me is "luck" and some element of skill is removed from that format. In a cash game if you get a "bad beat" like that you can use your good play to recoup some or all of the money you lost in that hand.




Not sure why you made that point as I've said nothing of the sort. I simply made the point that over a longer period of time the better players will come out on top in cash games whereas in a tournament the player with the most luck on that particular day tends to come out on top.




Again you seem to be attributing something to me that I haven't said. I was pointing out, again, that in a tournament you have payed a relatively small amount (compared to the prize pool) and thats the most you can "lose" so players play more loose especailly when calling. If its a cash game and somebody raises the pot and it will cost you £200 (thats just a figure I made up) to call with your ace rag or whatever you are less likely to call IMO. Yes the good players will usually do the right thing and call/fold/raise regardless of the circumstance but more of the numpty players are involved in tournament and it only takes one bad beat to put you out.

I'm not sure why you think I was comparing the two formats anyway? I simply pointed out that Cash games involve more skill IMO than tournaments and that the better players will usually perform consistently better in a cash game.

Sounds really good. I play in the redtooth league for points so maybe we could do a similar points format to them? Everybody gets 10 points for playing. Final 8 get 100, 80, 70, 60 .......20. Each season last 13 weeks.

They actually have an online league at William Hill using the same format. I played in it once but it was awful. The blinds started way too low and it took forever. Hopefully we can get them to start at say 25/50 with 3,500 starting chips. 10 minute levels.

What do you think?

If we get a league going or even a one off game I'm in. I know of at least 3 other people who would be in as well.

yeah good idea i have emailed william hill for some info on the league set up.
Maybe have half the buy in for the nights game and half going to the overall league standings
So say 20 play per week for 13 weeks @ 2.20 buy in you cou;ld have 1st 2nd 3rd paying £10 £6 £4 and the winner of the league, runner up, and 3rd would recieve £70, £40, £20

Whats everyones view on this?

Good good obviously will hill wants as many as poss and they would be more helping if the figures i gave them was good.

I was going to suggest that but wasn't sure if it was possbile to set up. If we can get that then great!

I think you are being a bit ambitious! Start with a 1 off game and see how many people join and go from there.

I'm up for it for a one off game. If its a success then I might be up for the league thing.

Ok one off game on will hill, best night everyone?

Who is the best person to ask for some help regarding getting rlfans.com affiliated?

im in for a 1 off game, any night is good for me as long as its after 8pm. think i have a billy hills account still. keep me informed of the buyins etc

Will do soon as i set the tourney up i will post it on here think i will be looking at sat or sun night around 8pm if that is ok?

I can't do either but don't let that stop you!

Hmm i was thinking a week day would be better. I'd have to play it by ear on a weekender

ok weekday then i am in eary stages so all opinions welcome., What about 8pm

Weekdays better for me too and 8pm OK. Monday would be good for me tbh.

Well no of course not, but if you answered the question it would give me an idea of what levels you are basing your assertions and opinions on. i.e. if you've not bought into a tournament for more than a tenner or something then I'll not really disagree with anything you've said




Indeed but luck on an overall scale in poker is just as integral to cash games as it is to tournaments, skill overrides luck the higher you get in the main but yeah as you said with a tournament when you're out you're out and that's that really so ho hum.



You did, you said it here:






Tbh I think we're comparing completely different levels here, If you're talking about those $10 buy-in's you get online where the overall prize pool is easily over $1,000 then I suppose you're right yeah but for someone to have that kind of mentality in a tournament I don't think you can make a comparison to someone playing in a cash game with £200 involved in one hand.



We'll have to agree to disagree there. To last a few days in a tournament takes a ridiculous amount of discipline and mental stamina, especially when you can be sometimes playing till 4/5/6am from lunchtime but certainly to be a winning cash game player requires an immense amount of skill

does anyone use rakeback on online poker

Low stakes mainly. I've only been playing about a year so I'm not ready to throw all my cash away just yet








Which was my point all along, in order to win, or even go deep, in a tournament you are probably going to have win a few coin flips which is where the luck comes in. I'm not saying skill isn't involved but a bad piece of luck early on and you dont have the chance to come back from it. You dont generally "go out" of a cash game so over the longer period of time the luck will even itself out and the skill becomes the difference.





I think we have got our wires crossed. I wasn't suggesting that every hand should be played, I was suggesting that when a player is involved in a hand they would be looking to maximise profit. Whilst the same is true in tournament play I'd suggest its possibly more important in cah games.




I only picked £200 as an example figure. Someone may be willing to pay say $10 to enter a tournament and play quite loose in order to double through etc to try and get the big rewards because they know the most they will lose is the original $10 stake. If its raised to say $20 dollars pre-flop in a cash game would the same player risk that $20 dollars to try and out play his opponent after the flop? Again I'm not saying both formats dont require skill but far more of the less skillful players are involved in tournaments and will get lucky against the better player from time to time.




I'm certainly not saying skill isn't involved for tournament play but IMO luck plays a larger role in that format.

Quick story - I was watching a WPT final table the other week. Nick Schulman hit top pair after the flop (Queens) he bets and an Internet Qualifier calls, The turn brings Schulman 2 pair so he bets again and again the Internet Qualifies calls. The river comes as something like 5 of spades so again Schulman bets (these have all been big bets) and the Internet Qualifier calls with what he thinks is King high. Schulman flips over his 2 pair and the qualifier flips over his cards and says "king high" its only when the dealer points out that he actually made the flush on the river he realises he has won a very big pot. He then went on to win the tournament