www.hof.org.uk/showthread.php?t=2403 Millwall fan with a season ticket tries to buy his own seat and can't work out why Millwall are saying it's already been sold.

www.hof.org.uk/showthread.php?t=2403 Millwall fan with a season ticket tries to buy his own seat and can't work out why Millwall are saying it's already been sold.

There is no blind faith in Rafa. Supporting the manager and team at games should be expected from all supporters. I know that, when I used to go to games, I may have disagreed with what was on the pitch, I may have no wanted a certain player to play, but I would always sing and chant their names, simply because winning meant everything. After the games I can let my frustration out on things like forums, but I'd rather hear Rafa's name chanted every week instead of things like "we want Megson out say we want Megson out" like we heard at Bolton, or something like that anyway.

As I've said earlier in the season, Rafa seems to have lost something this year and so have the team. I've said before, I think he's lost aspects of the dressing room. Torres, Gerrard, Carra and even Mascherano have cut frustrated figures for long parts of the season, but it was evident in pre-season, something wasn't right and it's been there all year. He has made stupendous amounts of mistakes, he's never been perfect, but the amount of strange decisions have cost us dearly on many occasions. Our chances of getting fourth are pretty slim, it's well out of our hands and all we can do is hope and get on with things, but if he doesn't fulfill on the promise of fourth, then his future has to be taken into deep consideration. People can blame the big players, the owners or whoever, but tonight we lost against Wigan. They're not a side with a sugar daddy, they don't have a big stadium, they don't have a huge wage bill, they don't have a wise old manager with experience, they were a side in poor form, an average side who have struggled for long parts of the season, but we turned up and left our desire on the coach. If Rafa cannot motivate these players to play for the shirt, for the fans, then he must consider his future with us, because he is then massively failing to do his job.

I don't want him to be sacked, I like him, he loves the club and he understands the fans most of the time, but nobody is bigger than the club and if he has to go for the benefit of the club, then so be it, because I feel like we've been in free fall this year and it's gonna be hard for us to stop falling even further, especially if we don't qualify for the CL.

Its very unclear what the Red Knights are proposing, but if their PR is to be believed its certainly not a simple PLC model.

Under the PLC model the Directors act in the financial interests of the shareholders. They provide them with a financial return on their investment, either through dividends or (as in the case of the previous United PLC) capital growth. Shareholders in a PLC normally expect a financial return greater than the bondholders, because they are taking greater risk. They might not expect a dividend income comparable to the Glazers PIK debt payments, but they'd certainly normally expect more than the interest paid on the recent bond issue.

Simple PLC shareholders would probably be happy to forgo a normal level of dividend and allow United to pump profits into the playing squad, provided the value of their shareholding increased and they had the prospect of making a profit when they eventuallysold the shares. But the reports that I've read suggest that MUST will be given a golden share that will give its representative a right of veto over any sale of the club. If the shareholders do not have the right to freely trade their shares then they are certainly not like normal shareholders in a PLC.

If the profits are pumped into the playing squad rather than dividends and the right to make a future profit on their investment is restricted how are they simple PLC shareholders?

If the Red Knights are going to give up some of the most basic rights that they would normally be entitled to as shareholders what do they get in return? I suppose its possible that they are being entirely motivated by their feelings as United fans. Its possible that they will inject millions into the club without the prospect of a normal financial return. Its possible they will not expect their millions to give them any significant influence over the running of the club. But is it likely?

came back to haunt shankley?????????


we were an absolute disgrace last night, there was no coordination in the the team as a whole, even torres was out of sorts. what's needed IMO is a radical shake up at he club, get rid of pellegrino and lee and beg paco to come back ASAP. perhaps rafa is now holding out for the offer from real to become their next coach? who knows? we have the spine of the team and it's as good as you'll find anywhere but, there is something laking this season, the common denominator is pellegrino and lee they are certainly far too negative in their oaching tactics and if they stay at the club we will carry on going backwards to become also rans like everton.

i was on top form last night singing my heart out with the rest of the travelling kop

But you dont have a spine of a team thats as good as any, unless you mean a spine of a goalkeeper, one midfielder and one striker

reina, agger, mascherano, aquillani, torres.........find me any better in this league!!!

I see Stevie G remained that rolemodel of sportsmanship and stalwart of class he has always been last night.

cech, terry, Essien, lampard, drogba

You kidding me? Thsta hillarious. Agger? Not even in the top ten centre halfs in the prem, Masc so good he gets put at RB insted of being in the spine...and Aqu...the less said the better...

don't be silly blue nose, agger is a tremendous centre back who will only get better and better (remember he is still young) only rafa knows whys masch is played out of position, and aquillani is extremely skillful and is the urrent golden boy of the italian national team.

i'll give you essien but cech is so good that he is being shipped out in the summer because of his very poor form this season, terry is a serial shagger, drogba better than torres







and the less said about fat f the better.

All of them struggling to get into the 6th best team in the prem's first XI, must be good.

Yeah, I know that. I was just simplifying it. Unlike other consortiums that claim to want to buy United, the RKs are the only ones who are engaging with fans. MUST has good representation at all meetings held with the RKs to ensure that whatever deal happens has the interests of the fans at the heart of it.

It's gunna take a few months I reckon for them to iron out all the details before they start bidding for the club.

I see Pini Zahivi (sp) has got a consortium together...the Glazer's couldn't be happier, they can now auction the club between the two sets and get the highest price. Hopefully the RKs can outbid this snake though.

I think the Glazer's will try hold on until a deal has been sorted regarding individual TV rights, as United would be able to milk $hit loads more cash than any other PL team, upping the value of the Club. Although this could be one of the only ways to save United whilst the Glazer's are in charge, it would kill the Premier League.

That is unless of course ST holders fail to renew by the thousands this summer. The Club is already e-mailing people getting them to join the magicial waiting list that doesn't even exist anymore.

At least Drogba and Lampard manage to get on the field on a regular basis.

Yep.

we may be sixth but we're still above you.

Cech being shipped out in the summer??? First I've heard of it. His very poor form this season? There's no doubt that he's not the player he was at his peak, but he's still let in less goals than Reina.

What does Terry's shagging have to do with the strength of the teams spine???

Drogba 19 league goals. Torres 13.

And I can understand why you don't want to talk about Fat F, seeing as he's scored one less goal from midfield than your super Torres has.

If you really need to compare the strengths of the spines of Chelsea and Liverpool, just look at the table and the achievements of the last five years. You're a headcase if you think Liverpool have a stronger spine than Chelsea.

You do realise Torres has been out injured for half of the season don't you?
You also realise that, despite having it pointed out before, the number of goals a goalkeeper lets in isn't the greatest indication of how good he is? Or are you saying that Hilario is a better keeper than Cech, cos he has let in less goals after all.

I'd rather see him getting animated for getting booked for a good challenge than accept it. If that involves giving the ref the v's or sticking the nut on him, I'm all for it.

Oh, and Liverpool's spine has never been a problem before.....now. Of that spine, Gerrard has had no form all season, Torres hasn't played enough games, Carragher looks alot older now and only Reina and Mascherano have looked anything like. If Gerrard and Torres can get their form back and Agger can get a number of games together, it should be rectified. Even in losing efforts last year you could always rely on the spine of the team to do well but even that is struggling currently.

The less said about the likes of Kuyt, Insua, Maxi and Riera the better. Babel finally looks to have a found a bit of form and gets on for 10 minutes at the end last night while Dirk Benitez gets a full 85/90minutes every week cos he works hard. Yossi gets hooked after 70 minutes despite being our only threat last might and anonymous Maxi gets the full game despite losing the ball 90% of the time.

As alluded to by RR before, I'llstill support Benitez but his decisions are getting more baffling by the week. If he can't risk Aquilani in a game against Wigan then we may as well ship him out and cut our losses.

Absolute top class entertainment.

Brilliant first fixture of the season to attend last night.

I do, but if you're claiming that someone is part of a side's spine, and that their spine is the strongest, it helps if they can actually get on the pitch.

Aquilani has barely played as well. And I don't even think he's done very much for you to have faith in him, but you're claiming him as part of the most talented spine in the league???



But Cech has consistently let in less than Reina, even when Liverpool actually had a title challenge rather than a challenge for 4th place.

Hilario's let in less goals because he's hardly ever played. But when he has played he's let in more goals per game than Cech has.

I've seen the photo of him with two fingers up in front of the ref, but from that picture it looks to me like he's just indicating 2 rather than giving him the v's.

What happened?

The ref surely can't say he didn't see it. He was stood 6 feet in front of him and looking straight at him.