This Downing hype is very similar to when we signed Jermaine Pennant. When we signed him, the majority knew he was average, yet some defended him with things like "He crossed the ball more times than anybody in the league", yet he was average for us. Everybody wanted Dani Alves over Pennant, Sevilla upped their price slightly and we couldn't afford it as we wanted Dirk Kuyt as well as a right sider, and if we got Alves we wouldn't have got Kuyt.

Another thing, people listing off Downing's stats are like those who listed Barry's in comparison to Alonso's. Statistics aren't everything, heck, even playing in the same league isn't everything. Downing isn't a poor player, not by any stretch of the imagination, but, likewise, he isn't a £20m player and he isn't good enough for most of the top sides in Europe, something I feel we should be targeting in due course.

Lastly, the biggest problem I have with this transfer, and most of our transfers of late, isn't just the player, it's our determination to overpay for players who aren't actually worth what we pay. It isn't a great business model to build around. I thought we were going into the market to be clever, to try and outwit our opponents, but we've entered it with a careless attitude. You shouldn't overpay for any player, you should be good enough to find other options and have back up plans, it seems once we decide, we don't backtrack. We've now gone out and spent close to £70m on Carroll, Downing and Henderson, possibly more than £70m according to some, whilst I personally believe that money could have been used strengthening other areas of the squad. I feel we're a left back, two centre backs and a right winger lite. Furthermore, the money we've spent on Downing probably won't be recuperated in a future sale. It's not like when we signed Crouch for a small-ish fee, Downing's in his peak, we've overpaid and his value will only drop now, unless Real Madrid suddenly deem him di Maria's superior (probably is now he's signed for us).

Still, for the record, I am underwhelmed by our signings. As I said, it's like watching Sparky at Citeh, overpaying for homegrown talent because of some mythical belief that it adds an instant injection. I am sure the endless amounts of players that prove that there is no rule in how long a player takes to adapt will laugh at that defence.

Maybe. Or it could of been viewed by him being better rather than them disliking Young, who knows?

To conclude, how about we agree on that he's not worth 20 million pounds? Deal?

We (Liverpool) rated Young over Downing. We tried all January to get Young, Villa refused to budge (probably agreed a Whelan-esque deal with United) so we left it until the summer, but United got him over us, so we ended up going for Downing.

Sounds good, I'll go with that! Anyway, it won't be long until the season starts over again and we can see what all these new signings for every team (Everton aside, obviously!) have to offer











I never do but being a Liverpool fan from Hull I'm sure you know all about Everton fans eh! It's the second in a week you've had a go about Evertonians and yet you probably pick it all up off a Liverpool forum too, pathetic.

Who's had a go at Evertonians? I've had a pop at you, the individual who apparently couldn't give a toss about Liverpool yet spends all his time talking about them and their signings. And where I come from is irrelevant.

You did, twice:







On the same theme who I support is irrelevant. I don't see why you've got such a problem with me being an Evertonian and commenting on Liverpool. I don't care about Liverpool or any other club, apart from my own, but if that's what is being discussed I don't see why I shouldn't get involved because of who I support.

Tut tut. Bit of revisionism there pal, expect better from you!

Wickham and Marveaux ring a bell?

The money doesn't have to be recuperated from a future sale. If Downing helps Liverpool to get in the Champions league twice in the next 5 seasons his fee will have been recuperated. Would Man U get their £18m back if they sold Michael Carrick tomorrow, or would they think the success they have had as a team during his spell has balanced the fee, which many thought was too much. If Man U spend £35m on Sneijder and replaced Carrick (as an example), would that money be recuperated in a future sale or would Man U deem it a price worth paying if they went on to win the League twice in the next 4 seasons?



I'll think you'll find Dalglish has wanted and tried to sign Downing in January. Did it ever cross your mind he wanted both?

Nonsense, not as if he's the only addition to the squad.

If Liverpool had the same squad as last season (excluding any departures), with the only arrival being Downing, and they made the CL then you could say he helped them make it there - combined with the continued improvement Dalglish has got from the current squad. But, even if they do get there twice in five years, surely this money potentially earned will be used to gloss over the fact they have also overpaid for Carroll and Henderson.

Considering 2 good years in the Champions league could be worth £50m + without taking match ticket and merchandise sales into account, I don't think it is. Liverpool earned over £23m the last time they were in it (2009/10) and they didn't get past the quarter finals.

OK, so we didn't overpay for two players, although it's arguable that we probably should have overpaid for Wickham, considering he's a) A striker; b) very young with huge potential; and c) his fee was actually quite small in comparison to Henderson's, Carroll's and Downing's.

We may make money in other ways, but I always believe every club that spends a big sum, unless they don't need future re-sale money, should always have three/four years ahead of them in mind. I feel that paying £20m for a player - whose value will only decrease - isn't the best piece of business to be making. Although he's contributed to them winning trophies, I don't think United's signing of Berbatov was that great a move, and I don't think they'll get much change from him if they go on to sell him. However, their signing of Hernandez is the complete opposite: cheaper, less risk involved and his price has probably trebled in one season. I understand that United having an established squad means they can go out and not put expectations on a player like Hernandez, but I'd personally rather see us go out and take risks on young players, instead of overpaying on a player who is decent, purely because of the reward factor. With Downing, we know we aren't getting a world class player, we know we aren't getting a player with CL experience and we know that his price tag is only going to decline, so the overpaying factor, for me, is frustrating.

As for wanting both, well, the impression I got (depends on what you believe) was we asked for Young, got told no, tried as hard as we could to change their mind, but they still said no. I never heard too much speculation on Downing in January, but if there was concrete interest, I'd willingly accept we wanted both. Still, for the sake of the debate, I think Young's a better player than Downing. Just has more to his game and asks more of the defence.

Andy has a point though you surely have to take into account all the signings that help you get back in the Champions League, if you do of course, (which hopefully you won't

) so Suarez, Carroll, Henderson and Downing plus anyone else he decides to flash the cash on before the end of August, lot of money to recoup

Balanced by rinsing Chelsea out of £50mil for a player who didn't look half as good as any of those players mentioned last season.

That takes a chunk out of it but they still spent more on Carroll and Suarez before they spent this summer so even in January it was more spent than came in.

I'm certain I read somewhere that the money from Babel as well meant they made a profit in Jan. That was great business if so.

I forgot about him mate, think he went for around £6m so him plus Torres probably balances out their January transfers.

It did. People say Liverpool paid too much for Carroll, and there isn't any doubting that they did, but if it's true what they said straight after the transfer in that they said to Chelsea, you can have Torres for whatever Newcastle want for Carroll + £15mil.

If you'd been offered Carroll + £15mil for Torres in January, that looks like a cracking deal in that respect.

It does because Torres wanted out so they had to sell him and they moved quick to bring a replacement in. There's not doubting on form Torres is a much much better player but Carroll has time and has already proved in the Prem he does have the potential to be a very good striker.

Don't get Andy Carroll, his second touch is a tackle. The white Michael Ricketts.

But Torres hasn't been on form for 2 years now (imo). I kinda hope after a summer off and a full preseason he can get some semblance of form back (not too much mind).

So Fergie says Utd not interested in Wesley, Nasri and Modric won't be coming either....that hole in central midfield still needs filling.

He will play Park there with Young now on the left.

Villa bid £10 million for N'Zogbia. After getting £20 million for Downing, if that comes off you have take your hat off to McLeish.

Doubt it, he has already admitted there is a hole to fill. Park will play in the bigger games and Giggs will play in the middle.

Poulsen's available.

Since January 2011 at Liverpool

Out:

Torres £50 million
Babel £7 million
Konchesky £1.5 million

Total £58.5 million

In:

Suarez £22 million
Carroll £35 million
Henderson £15 million (approx)
Downing £17 million (approx)
Adam £7 million

Total £96 million

Net spend of £38 million to sign 5 young first team players in exchange for 1 first team player who didn't want to play for Liverpool anymore and 2 fairly awful squad players. Overall, I'm very happy with that. Anymore spending will probably come from the sale of players we don't see as first team players.