I saw him at Haydock Park Races the other week and he said that Wigan will definately release him by the end of next year on the condition that he returns to Wigan when he comes back to Super League. I hope it's not true though as much as I want to see you lot lose your best players and come down to the rest of SL's level i'd hate all the best players to head to the NRL.

Anyone considered moving Sam to 6 and playing Russell at fullback? That could work.

This reminds me of myself when I left my last job, "yes I would stay, just pay me some more cash and throw a promotion in", which gave me a better position with the new offer.

agreed. its also unbelievably naive of anyone to imagine that a player looking for his last big contract is going to accept an offer that early in the season. his agent must have been choking on his cornflake when he heard that.

also the quotes regarding our next crop of juniors. Finch is not exactly going to want to just state "sorry guys. better money back home. see ya". he'll want to try and deflect a little of the ire onto the Club. and when you have people like DaveO waiting to lap up the 'bad' news, its an easy play to make.

Lets face it. Good Aussies are increasingly difficult to tie down for more than a couple of years. Who realistically expected him to extend ?

He'd only have done so for big(-ish) money, and I'm increasingly thinking that a hard-headed approach to player payments is the way to go. We took exactly the same attitude with Hanley when he wanted a pay increase non-commensurate with his age and performances level, and we didn't suffer when he left (whereas Leeds still won nothing).

Agreed. we suffered in the pre IL days of throwing all of our cap at marquee players and not having a team/squad to build around them (assuming that they lived up to their billing of course, which didnt happen quite a lot)

This hard-nosed approach could be the best thing to happen for GB International status.
If our better plays get experience down under, and we are forced to blood locals rather than expensive imports, I am certain we will start to unearth talent that would not have previously been given an opportunity.

I believe if we had made an offer earlier which matched what Finch wanted then he would have stayed. However the club waited to see how Finch performed this season, rightly as well because you can imagine the criticism if he had been given say a 3 year deal before the start of the season and then been awful. However this more hardline approach ended up backfiring and in many ways Finch's great form has been the reason why he has ended up going as it made him a wanted man and he had offeres galore. It is just one of those things imo and you cant blame him for wanting to return home nor can you blame the club for wanting to see how Finch performed. I am sure most fans have grown sick of imports being stuck at their clubs on long deals when they are past their best and not performing.

We also must accept that there's a bigger demand than usual Down Under. The NRL has got more cash and cap-space to play with than ever before, whereas we are still stuck in black and white, ration-riddled Britain.

True, in the long run though I think it will actually be good for the game here and for England i.e clubs producing more English players and more English players getting chances. It will certainly be very good for Wigan. If it means less average imports then I am all for it (I still think that clubs will be be to attract 2 or 3 good quality imports if they so desire.)

I also believe had we made him an offer in March he would have taken it but I don't agree it was right to wait and see how he performed because the club already knew Tommy was leaving before the season started and by March when Finch said he wanted to stay he was already standing out as the class player he is. I don't think this was what the club was doing anyway. They have always known how good a player he is. I think it is far simpler. They just made a big mistake!

Bottom line is we have ended up in a position with both first choice half backs leaving at the same time and at the same time as the experience (and skills) of Lima and Carmont also goes. That is not good management whatever theoretical excuses people can dream up for it.

Hanley was still the best player in the league four years later so he wasn't misplaced in pushing for a top salary. His age was never an issue because of how fit he was.

But yes Wigan didn't do badly out of the deal as you were then cashed up and able to sign Offiah and had enough great players to still be the best without him.

Yeah but that's just Aussies for you, there were always people on Aussie forums saying Finch was crap.

Any Aussie that comes here is crap and/or past it though according to those types.

He's clearly wanted to go back to Australia for a while.

I don't know how you get through the day with your attitude. Everything is 'glass half full', IL is at fault. Woe is me.

We offered him the contract he wanted and he decided to turn it down. End of discussion. Good luck to him in Australia, but we have to move on and think about ourselves now.

Dave, you also are dreaming things up.

It will only be bad management if we arrive at next season with no-one to replace these guys.

I thought you'd have learned by now to stop issuing dire warnings when you don't know the full facts.

When we signed the Melbourne trio we were very fortunate to do so, having took full advantage of a unique situation. Never at any time did I honsetly think we would re-sign any of them over and above their original contracts.

These were Champion players at the top of their game in the NRL, they could choose where they wanted to play if needed be.

Let's get behind Jeff, Brett, Tommy and George and send them on their way with a sack of trophies this year. Let IL and SW sort out next years playing squad covertly so as not to bump up salaries in a tug of war for players...Only announce anything once a signature is on a contract....lol

would chase and smith at 6,7 but such a bad thing under this coaching staff and players that will be surround them ?

one of my biggest concerns about both Tommy and Finch departing is regarding there defence on the fringes.

For two of the smaller guys they possibly have (pound for pound) the best technique of any half-backs in the league and in Tommy's case the world.

They might not be specifically critiqued on there defence and they primarily earn there money by being an offensive player, but in the modern game there is not room for any hangers on in defence.

That is why i am not to concerned about Smith and Chase being linked. One thing for sure is that they are both pretty sound defenders. Chase has pulled of some cracking hits when i have watched him (The Ropati incident aside).

I don't want us to be signing another Tim Smith

no, Chase would create tries for fun with this team and behind the Wigan pack

I really do not want Chase anywhere near this Wigan team. He is not disciplined enough to play with our structures. The number of times I have seen Cas create an overlap only for Chase to be too greedy and muck it up. For everything good he does, he does a lot wrong.

I would much rather have a young player brought through, who under our structure could be just as effective.

bit unfair to the lad, I don't think he'd be allowed to play like he does at Castleford if he was here at 6. He knows he has strike weapons everywhere at Wigan, but sadly at Cas there's him and not much else

That is true. He played well in the Exiles game last season and I hoped to see more performances like that for England in the 4Nations, seeing as he was around other quality players but it just didn't seem to happen. Also his link up play with Sam wasn't the best.

I have no problems with him as a player, just don't think he would fit in with what is in place at Wigan.

But let us not forget that people have a tendency to blindly use the term 'greedy' to Sam Tomkins too. Rangi Chase is a class above any player at Castleford. For Castleford to play well he usually has to play well. Everything Castleford do comes through him - they rely on his individual brilliance - hence he is top of the try assist charts and hence on occasions he will go for glory himself because they rely on him to do that. I look at Chase and don't see someone who is greedy but I see someone who is a step ahead of the players around him & is very frustrated that players are not of a high enough quality to follow him. Similar to Trent Barrett's spell at Wigan. Similar to the start of Brett Finch's Wigan career.

I also fail to understand how anyone can irrefutably say with such affirmation that Rangi Chase is 'not disciplined enough to play with our structures' as you've just done now. Yes Rangi Chase is a player who can win games through individual brilliance but so is Sam Tomkins yet he fits into our structured systems magnificently with individual brilliance - greediness? - still shining through. Didn't Shaun Wane pre-season call for his strike players to take opportunities when they were on? To show off their skills? In fact wasn't it one of the main areas he worked on pre-season? I fail to see why people are ruling out Rangi Chase fitting into our systems. Chase didn't do too badly playing for the Exiles last year did he? I think he won MOTM too. Rangi Chase doesn't play to a system at Castleford because they haven't got any to the types we play (hence why they're struggling!) Swap Sam Tomkins & Rangi Chase and I'd bet you'd get the same result.

My personal opinion is that Chase is one of the best halfbacks in the league. He won Man of Steel last year as the best player in this league & while I feel that accolade should have gone to Sam Tomkins, I do however feel that Chase deserved to be in the top three. I've heard that Wigan are making a move for Chase & if we do get him I'll be very excited to see Rangi Chase & Sam Tomkins play in the same side.

As I have said above though, his performances for England left a lot to be desired. Even more so in his linking up with Sam Tomkins, you only need to see how much more effective our attack was down the right hand side, compared to the left to prove this.

Also Sam is now playing at FB and Chase in the halves so their roles within the team are very different, and would be very different together at Wigan.

No doubting Chase's ability but I would rather see a steady, safe replacement in the mould of Brett Finch, rather than someone like Chase. Just have to wait and see.