You said that 10 years ago

You haven’t watched nrl this season?

Not wrong there, Should have not give Clubb another contract and brought in a younger more capable prop

I was taking the pee 10 years ago

Not saying it'll be enough but I'd definitely be starting Smithies and French next time.

Agreed

Nope.

whilst we hammered you last night I suspect we will be meeting again in the final. I am sure Wigan will play a lot better next time.

and Sammut, for god's sake put a scrum half on the pitch, someone who can organise the team and has a kicking game, that might help.

I find it amusing the way some people think some players a top class on week then we should get rid of them the next.

At the end of the day this St Helens team finished 16 points above us, have the confidence of having already beaten us 3 times this year and were at home.

We all agree that their pack is better than ours particularly in the prop department. Thompson and Walmsley both had outstanding games last night and the rest of the team played off the back of it. IMO those two are the difference between St Helens and the rest of the league at the moment.

I’m obviously disappointed but it was hardly unexpected.

Probably too late now to be doing that but generally I agree. Maybe give him a go off the bench next week.

FB 20 Hardaker
RW 17 Marshall
RC 3 Sarginson
LC 4 Gildart
LW 43 French
SO 6 Williams
SH 7 Leuluai
P 24 Partington
H 9 Powell
P 10 Flower
SR 13 O'Loughlin
SR 12 Farrell
LF 36 Smithies (loose in defence, swap with Lockers in attack)

S 8 Clubb
S 11 Greenwood
S 14 Navarette
S 37 Sammut

Leave out:
Hankinson - thought he went OK tbh but we need Sarginson's metres and he has big game experience
Burgess - was winding me up going sideways then backwards last night. We need to make better use of French and this would be the obvious way to do it
Byrne - I'm sure he'll mature into a good player but he gets smashed too regularly right now for me. Navarette isn't great but I don't think he loses the collision as much
Isa - I've stuck up for him before but last night he was horrific. Surrendered every tackle and was badly at fault for one try. Greenwood hasn't been great for us but at least we know that on his day he has the talent.

I would hesitate to dump the generally very reliable Isa for one poor game.

Just looking at the stats from the game. Saints had big metres all over the pitch, backs and forwards. We had two props who made 20m or less, and winger who made 34. I felt at the game that Gildart was about the only one to put his hand and make to make something,and his creditable figures reflect this. And the much maligned Williams was actually out top metre-maker.

Yea that a little bit of an overreaction,it was a stinker granted but he’s been dependable.

Especially as he’s our top tackler this season.

It would be a huge call but the more I sit and think, the more I want to put Sarginson at fullback. His energy is boundless and he will make you rafts of metres from that position and set a tone. I doubt it will happen but Hardaker will do fine at centre and he isn’t threatening enough from fullback at the moment for me.

I’d go-

Sarginson
French Hardaker Gildart Marshall
Williams Leuluai
Flower Powell Navarrete
Smithies Greenwood Farrell

Subs
Lockers Partington Isa Clubb


Only thing I’m unsure on is Faz or Smithies at right second row. Maybe Greenwood can go in there but all the indications are that he isn’t comfortable over there.

In defence line up as ...

Hardaker
French
Sarginson
Gildart
Marshall
Williams
Leuluai
Flower
Powell
Partington
Farrell
Isa
Smithies

O’Loughlin
Navarette
Greenwood
Clubb

When in attack switch the back 5 to ...

French
Sarginson
Hardaker
Gildart
Marshall

I don’t think moving Zak would achieve anything. Honestly I just don’t think our play is currently suited to linking him in the way Tomkins used to. I hope that changes next season, it needs to because as it currently stands we have very little attacking threat.

I’m going to go against what I have said previously and go with French in the halves and Tommy to #9. I don’t know whether it was just a bad game or his wrist but Powell just didn’t look right. Clubb dropped completely. 2 drives and 11mtrs is embarrassing for any prop forward but for a professional is completely unacceptable:

Hardaker
Marshall
Sarginson
Gildart
Burgess
Williams
French
Flower
Tommy
Navarette
Farrell
Greenwood
Smithies

Isa
Lockers
Partington
Byrne

Changing out Zak for a 'second pivot' FB would literally change the way we attack.

I can see your point but putting French into the halves would also change our game.

French isn't suited at all to the halves with the way we play. All you need to do is watch back the games were he's played in the halves; do you honestly think he's looked good? French isn't a playmaker to bring people into the game, he's a 'strike' player, who has speed and a step to rival anyones in SL, let him play off either half out wide where's there's space linking in the backline, he's pace out wide will frighten teams to death.

Putting French at FB is a game changer, playing him in the halves at this stage is a bad idea; the evidence is there for all to see.

I have and I’m not saying he’s looked good, my past comments will prove that but with how weak our defence has been recently we need a good solid FB who can tackle, otherwise what’s the point of a FB? We’re forgetting the core role of a FB here I feel. French doesn’t look the strongest in D either.

Regardless of whether French goes to FB/HB or stays on the wing, we won’t win the GF. I’d play him in the halves to add that attacking flair, you’d put him at FB for essentially the same reasons. Basically we’re debating two sides of the same coin.

How do you know French can't stand up in D from FB? You suggest he plays 6, but that would mean he's getting through more tackles defending in the line.

We're not debating the same side of the same coin, the role of a FB in the modern game is different to a 6.

Opposition players have made metres through him. I’m yet to be convinced on his defensive qualities.

We are in the sense that we’re debating his attacking strengths in different positions. Which centre does Hardaker go into? Gildarts? Sarginsons? Neither for me. Why change one of our most consistent players for an untested (in SL) FB when Powell looks like he is injured and the opportunity to put him in the halves is there?

We’ve nothing to lose.

Hardaker could easily be played at centre or the wing, having French at FB gives us the attacking quality link up play which has been missing all season. I'd even go as far to say Sarge was linking up better as a second pivot than Zak.
We need something else, we're stagnate in attack its easy to see.

I don't think French is as good as a defender as Zak; saying that I don't think either Tomkins or Bowen were/are in the same league defensively as Zak, but what they offered was something different and most needed as a key part in our attack.

I've seen French play full back many times in the NRL. What did you make of his defensive capabilities over there as a FB playing in a higher calibre league?

Also.. you say opposition players have made metres through him; yet you want to play him in the halves in the defensive line? Doesn't really make sense.