I'd take Leuluai's organisation and passing as well. Smith is a truly awful passer and so many of our moves broke down because of it.

Tommy has been at best average bordering on abysmal during this run,seriously it was a huge error in getting rid of Smith,who was no world beater himself but much better than whats on offer at the moment,it needs addressing and quickly.

The only thing Smith has is a better kicking game and let's not forget on here he got slated for that as it isn't all that.
I'm not saying Tommy has been good but he's not had a dominant pack to work behind.
I remember after the WCC thinking it was a great signing,he organised us round the park,great defense,good passer and does the basics right,a perfect compliment for Williams I thought but it just hasn't worked,maybe if we find form so will Tommy.

Literrally struggling to think of a Lealuai try assist. Lots of pressure on George and now Sam to create the final pass for tries.

From the saints board after their win on Friday

"The last 7 mins was really exciting which is a rare thing for us these days but jesus the 73 mins before that we was absolutely shocking! No direction, no go forward, no creativity and couldn't keep hold of the ball.

Matty smith was rubbish again but did take his try well and a unreal drop goal in big pressure but that's hiding the fact he's not good enough. His kicking game is awful. He offers nothing in attack and by far the worst 7 I've seen in saints shirt."

Sounds familiar

The other option would be to swap Tommy to hooker and Powell to scrum half but I think that would make the situation worse.

This thread has drifted a lot but I think one of the main reasons TL was obviously as a future coach but also to give Shorrocks a couple of years to get first-team ready. Ideally Shorrocks would've played 10-15 games this year but sadly he got injured as well. Hopefully get gets plenty of chances in 2018 and can cement a spot in the halves.

I find it amusing perhaps the worst Saints team of the super league era has just a single player to pick on.

Isn't it strange that Wigan have scored far more tries with Tommy in the side than Smith?

Who said he was the only player they were picking on?

Just looking at the SL stats: Williams comfortably on top of the tree with 24 try assists this season, which is a pretty good effort in a struggling side. Gale second with 17, and our only other contender is Lockers with 7 (same as Smith). Brough has 15. Tommy not on the list (ie, not in the top 50), so less than 5.

I'd give swapping Tommy and Powell a go, most agree 9 is TL's best position, and Powell is supposed to be a half anyway.

I think the issue with TL is made worse by the fact that Williams has next to no long kicking game, so that is almost always left to Tommy, and it's his weakest suit.

And just on kicking: spiral bombs; they are a big weapon in the NRL; can no-one at Wigan produce them? Shouldn't they be part of any good half's armoury?

Yes swapping Leuluai for Powell seems worth a shot.

Tommy should be banned from high kicks, they achieve nothing and often leave us in a worse position than when we started on play 5.

They're just nothing kicks. No height, no movement and no chance of any of our chasers getting anywhere near them. I'd say they're catching practice but they're not even good enough for that!

I'd be giving the majority of the kicks by duties to Sam Tomkins if the set up stays as it is now. I'd also like to see McIlorum and Powell kick more from dummy half.

Leuluai's never played for Saints.

I honestly have no idea what you mean?

From reading the thread, it looks like she's saying that Smith is the worst 7 they've had because TL hasn't played for them. If that's the case, an opinion not worth arguing with as clearly, the writer has never played the game and knows very little about rugby league. Tommy might not have the best kicking game in the world but he's streets ahead of Smith in terms of skill and ability.

Exactly. People seem to have forgotten that Saints busted a gut trying to sign TL. Instead they settled for Matty Smith.

Never liked Tommy as a 7 the first time around let alone now. We are lacking creativity and leadership which are qualities I'd look for in a 7. Yes Tommy can 'put in the big shots' but when ever do we sign a 7 for his ability to crunch people?!

Tommy isn't creative. He has never shown any ability to play what's in front of him and move the team around the park. His kicking game is poor and general reading of the game is lacking.

So what do we do with him? Move him to 9? Then we have to drop Sam or Micky. I'd sooner keep Powell and Micky on the interchange and keep the money invested into Tommy to spend on another position or another 7. He's a bad signing.

I also wish we had a 'ball player' at 9. Can't remember the last time we had a 9 who had a quick scoot, excellent game management and got us playing on the front foot. Micky is another one like Tommy, excellent in defence yet not creative in attack.

I expect ball players who can read a game and play 'off the cuff' from my 1, 6, 7, 9. Currently we don't have that at Wigan.

Discounting what what you said about Tommy (who won the Harry Sunderland playing 7 in 2010 so not too shabby yeah?) George Williams can't play off the cuff?? Really??? And what do you mean by currently? A fit Sam Tomkins & Morgan Escare?? So we could have a line up with 1 - Escare 6 - Williams 7 - Tomkins and you say we've no 'off the cuff' players?? Really???????

Leuluai is the best hooker at the club if nothing else. Next season I'd like to see us try:

FB Escare
SO Williams
SH S.Tomkins
H Leuluai

S McIlorum/Powell (maybe sell one of the two if the opportunity arises)

Ive resisted calls for Sam to move up previously but perhaps this is the way to go next season.

ALL 1, 6, 7, and 9 to be creative positions.

We have Sam and George who are creative. That's about it.

Then we're compensating for Tommy's lack of creativity at 7 putting Sam there. On the same token we now have Tommy as a very expensive interchange 9 when we could have stuck with Sam Powell and used Tommy's wage elsewhere.