Well deserved, although I can't help but think Andy Lynch must have run over McNamara's cat.



Agreed on both - Hock will be in the final squad without a shadow of a doubt.

So you don't agree that McIlorum belted Cunningham and Roby all round the park in the Grand Final?
He did the same at Widnes with Roby. There are two sides to the game.
Do you think Roby will get the same space when we play the Aussies? You saw what happened at Widnes when that space was taken off him.

If you want another Roby style hooker (I don't) to play for England than Daryl Clark would be my choice. If only Michael Monaghan were English.

I see you're stuck in a 2008 Roby time warp. Watch him with your eyes open.



Yeah, we would then have a hooker who runs less, tackles less, misses more tackles, scores less tries, provides fewer assists, kicks fewer 40/20s, makes fewer busts and makes fewer breaks.

If only eh.

Theres a lot of negatives on here but does anybody not believe that the collective squad at present is pretty strong compared to recent years? There was a time as little as 4 or 5 years ago when there was almost only one name suitable for one position. But now there is a lot more depth and options.

Based on the squad as it is [inow[/i, maybe go with;

STomkins
Briscoe
Bridge
Yeaman
Hall
Widdop
Myler (excluded Brough because Widdop has a right kicking game on him)
Graham
Roby
Peacock (he's captain so will play regardless)
JTomkins (his best position in my opinion)
Westwood
O'Loughlin

Robinson
Carvell/Morley
Leon Pryce
Crabtree (he's stood up against Australia and Kiwi's before).

There is a fair few who are unlucky to miss out. And obviously come the end of the year, things may change or the squad may change. My choices above are based on the present. But obv Hock would have to be drafted in if selected because he's devastating in full flow. Lomax has been a revelation at Saints and so may be worth a shout come the end of the year.

But England fans should be reasonably happy for once.

You "quoted" his picks and replied with a

emoticon, we could all do that, the point is he shouldn't be belittled just because you don't agree with his choices!

in his (and mine) opinion MM would be the second choice hooker, can we not have that opinion without being ridiculed by you! I'm glad you're not England coach with a mentality of "why take a hooker for the bench when Roby can play 80 mins"!

Is saying Pryce should be in the squad not club bias to a ludicrous degree?? it is in my opinion, he wouldnt be anywhere near the squad, he has not proved nothing this year and is behind Widdop, brown, Mcguire in the pecking order.

See where you're coming from but [iif[/i he stays fit at Saints, he's better than Brown (he was found out in last years Internationals) and McGuire. I'll give you Widdop to be fair because he's immense and has made the #6 at Storm his own. No easy feat.

Yeah, you're probably right but my point is at this moment in time he is behind them in the pecking order, he has done nothing to warrant a selection, you was picking the squad on these terms you would be selecting people like hock and fielden and burgess as they [imight[/i be fit for the 4 nations. the idea of the training squad was to get together to try and gel before the tournament. There will inevitably be changes but how can Pryce warrant a selection? Then people have an opinion who they would pick and get ridiculed, by a saints fan!!!

You are deluded, how can you say MM is miles behind luke robinson? what are you watching? its already been established that for the Exiles game mcilorum was 3rd choice behind Roby and Luke but MM is playing far better than Luke at the moment, he played Roby off the park and Luke off the park in the space of 2 weeks and is the hooker of the current top of the table team. he showed in the GF last year how well he can play as you well know.

That team would seriously lack direction IMO, both Widdop and Myler being support players. If you want to play one of those they would need to play with an organising half too.

I don't agree with Pryce either, hardly played a game for the last 2 seasons and has in the past not cut it at international level, may be superb in SL running at tired defences with his show and go sidestep and off he is through the defence, that won't and doesn't work against the Aussies it's been tried and tested IMO, the Aussies are too good for that to work.

Firstly McNamara has to go, replaced with Wane, Smith or Cullen on a temp basis.

I would get that Jack Reed in the squad before he gets snapped up by Queensland and play him off the bench in a freindly to see how he fares.

We need a solid team, not 13 of our best players but our best team. (And not including player born overseas e.g. Manu)

I agree, apart from the bit about Cullen!


Also we would only need to go with a team of 16 as we don't need a hooker on the bench as Roby can play the full 80

Widdop isn't just a support player trust me. His distribution and organisation skills are on show every week, I watch the Storm with a close eye having lived there and watched them. I'm a fan of theirs.

And I can see where you are coming from with Pryce. He's barely played I agree but he does have the ability to open up tired defences, hence me putting him on the bench. He can also cover a variety of back line roles unlike others. And the squad I picked is based on the Elite Squad as it is now as I mentioned. An awful lot can change between now and the tournament itself.

As for McNamara, I don't rate him too highly either. Wane would be an interesting replacement and one I hadn't thought of. Working alongside Maguire will certainly establish some coaching positives, not least of all attitude and work ethic. So maybe somewhere along the lines we'll see Wane involved.

Fair point. I just do rate him as a player (through gritted teeth) and if he's in the squad and stops being a sicknote, there's certainly a chance he'll play somewhere come the end of the season four nations.

They are welcome headaches for the England coaching staff though that's for sure.

That's where I think England/GB coaches have gone wrong in the past, playing player who only stand out when the opposition is tired like Pryce and Wilkin, we need players like Roby and O'Loughlin who no matter how tired they or the opposition is they still play the same game. That's why I wouldn't want Myler in the team, he may of scored a few against France/Wales but so could I, against Aus he would be invisible.

Flat track bully springs to mind.

I dont see how anyone can name Reed in a starting team, the lads never shown any desire or expressed any wishes to play for England.

Burgess has publicly stated he's out of the four Nations so he's uselesess aswell unfortunatley.



Putting Myler in is showing clear club bias imo. He's way down the pecking order. Also as already stated him and Widdop are more support / off the cuff players who need an organiser at the side of them. I also dont think Widdops kicking game is too good either. Brough is a certainty even if its just because of his kicking game which is world class and will be needed greatly.

Also no SR on the bench? Expecting Westwood and J.Tomkins to do a full 80 in the backrow against the two best teams in the world is crazy and asking for trouble. May i ask why you've left Gareth Ellis out ? One of the only players in the squad whos plays at high intensity week in week out. IMO the back 3 are nailed on Ellis, Westwood and O'Loughlin then the bench spot is between Hock, JT, Wilkin and Harrison.

I'd forgotten about Ellis to be honest. Good point.

On the Bradford board they've been critical of him recently, which surprises me. I'd agree with you, but I think Lynch has ruled out touring with England, plus he is 30+ and players like him and Paul Wood are not the future of England RL. Paul Prescott/Lee Mossop are much younger and deserve a crack. I'm sure there are some more forwards from other clubs who could put their hand up too.

Is it just me that thinks Gareth Ellis should play centre in the 4N? Hock and Westwood in the second row? Just putting it out there to speculate on

.

I can't speak for everyone else but I didn't focus on Prescott's inclusion simply because that was one decision he got right. Paul should be in the squad, he's been great this season and is another player who England should be looking at for the long term rather than picking players on past reputations.

I understand your sentiment, but I don't think punishing ourselves by leaving out the best natural athlete we have (Widdop) in order to play a regular partnership is the way forward, especially when replacing him with a vastly inferior player in Brown.

I would be astonished if one of the best playmakers and athletes in the NRL's top team is left out for someone who clearly isn't fit to lace his boots.

Have you just decided that because he plays down under? Hes a very clever player and is definitely our best option at 6 but I dont know where you're getting "best natural athlete" from?

Not just because he plays over there, but that he is considered within Melbourne management to have the athletic potential of Billy Slater. I think that is all that needs to be said when judging it.

might just be you, he's one of the standout second rowers in the NRL and has been for a number of season, no way no how should he play centre. Personally i'd have Ellis and Westwood at 11/12

Agreed i think the back 4 picks itself aslong as Gaz continues to improve and get his fitness back.

11. Ellis
12. Westwood
13. O'Loughlin

14. Hock

Looks good to me, but the backrow has never been our problem. In general its the outsidebacks and halfbacks that dont cut the mustard.

Its selections like this, and having McBanana as a coach that makes me not want to bother with the whole wembley thing, as much as i want to and as much as I feel international RL is crying out for support.

If the RFL want international RL to have a resurgence they need to get rid of this clown fast.

The guy is a muppet, cant coach and cant even identify super leagues best players, what chance do we have against Aus and NZ?! At least under Nobby and Tony Smith, while you would expect to lose to Aus or NZ 8 or 9 times out of 10, you knew we would at least compete and give them a bit of a game....without a proper coach we're dead in the water.

I almost half hope we get annihalated by Aus and NZ if it at least means an end to the Mcbanana experiment and the end of international careers for many of those either past their sell by date, or never good enough in the first place - See Peacock & McGuire and Wilkin and Pryce respectively!!

Its beyond a joke