I find it absolutly laughable that after one performance Noble is the new found GOD...

Admittingly we played well on Friday, but to now turn round and say Johnh and DaveO view on noble is utterly wrong and are castigated for holding such opinions, well I am sorry but I can count on one hand the ammount of times in 3 years at the JJB were I have walked out of the ground and gone "That was a brilliant performance" I am sorry but "one off" performances are just that until they are backed up with consistent showings..

So who's fault is it if the team plays well one week and utter dross the next? Is it the players who haven't got their mind on the job or is it the atmosphere and conditions with which the team works that isnt beneficial for them to perform on a regularly consistent basis.

Wigan have the best training facilities, great back room staff etc.. all that is needed for the team to perform.. yet they are/were still inconsistent at best, we have scrapped into the play-off and managed to go on a good run and finish one game short of the Grand final which has papered over alot of the cracks.

I would like to think that now the new players are settling down I hope performances like Friday are the norm instead of "one offs" and credit must go to noble for forming a team that is able to perform well regularly, but if this is just a "one off" then noble is rightly open for criticism.

Are you always this numb?

The point of this thread (as ive stated loads of times but you ignore) is Jonh and others have gone on like a broken record that Noble cannot coach anything but 5 drives and a kick-a theory well and truely blown out of the water by Fridays superb attacking performance. I can only assume you think the way the team played on Friday had nothing to do with Noble.

The thread was nothing to do with who's fault it was or wasnt that we have lost 3 games.

As for your keep swapping players comment well i can only assume you want to keep swapping coaches? Oh hang on weve already tried that and i imagine you was one of the people who blasted Lindsay for sacking coaches!!

Only time will tell whether Saturday was the start of a brand new era of flowing rugby or another false dawn.

In truth there have been one off performances like this that have punctuated Nobles reign at the club and we have soon slipped back to normal. i.e Hull at home last year when we scored 60 and then got hammered by Leeds who scored 50+ a week or two later.

In my opinion people who said that we should not knee jerk over the first 3 games should also not do the same over one performance against a side who played as badly as I have ever seen them.

Another factor is that Bradford appear to be a club that Nobby finds it easier to coach against as with Leeds, the real acid test will be when we play teams who ask questions of the defence eg. Saints.

Some people are so fickle towards different aspects of the club.
Noble has made the needed changes as the season's progressed, changes that all us fans wanted and got.

Mathers dropped Sam Tomkins, Ainscough in, and Pat moved to full back. He even went one step further and completely dropped Smith from the 17, this shows a man who is bold, level headed but isn't afraid to make changes, thus resulting in a big win against 'Brat-ford'.

We looked better than ever this week, but I feel the wrong fixture maybe upon us next week, the nobby knockers will be out in full if we lose next week, but lets look at it realistically.. Leeds away is arguably the toughest fixture in the league, if we lose it isn't the end of the world, but it does me we'll be 2-6 which once again highlights a poor start to the season despite how much improvement we've seen this week.

I couldn't have put it better myself - a great performance but a one-off, until the team can perform to something like that standard week in week out there will always questions asked. I have had doubts about the coaching based on recent performances and some dire performances last season - until the team performs to this standard regularly I will keep those doubts. If they can play at this level consistently then I will be have those doubts removed. Simple really.

I would say quite the opposite a fickle opinion would be to start shouting from the rooftops just how outstanding everything is. Most of the Noble doubters including myself have said the acid test is not next week, but comes in the weeks following it.

To look back over the 3 years of evidence but chose to forget it because we played well on one occasion is daft.

As i said earlier i am optomistic about the rest of his time here, i think he is finally showing signs of flexibility and evolving as a coach, its a shame it took such lengths for him to do this, but hopefully he has done it and the evidence will be there for the rest of the year.

I have been very critical of Noble but also am happy to praise him, when he gets it right, as i said earlier those on the flip side of the debate it seems to me everyone but Noble is to blame when things are going wrong, yet he is totally responsible when it goes right. Its a flawed line to take to say the least.

I wouldn't regard losing at Leeds as the end of the world - if we lose it will be about performance - if we play well and make a real fight of it and push Leeds all the way then thats ok. In many ways it will be a good test - the team [ihave[/i to perofrm like they did against Bradford they can't afford to take it easy or slacken off - the $64000 question is can they repeat it?

I notice you haven't had a reply from the Nobby believers to this brief but excellent post.



The fact is that BN started this season preferring Smith and Phelps to Tomkins and Ainscough.



We had a shocking performance at home against Wakefield that was very similar to the dismal Hudds game last year and then 2 further defeats.

I accept the glory era will never return but what I can't accept are performances like that or players and coaches bleating about criticism from the fans in the press.

2 wins from 5 simply isn't good enough for Wigan.

Yes we performed better on Saturday, thank God. But the team selection has been arrived at by BN almost by accident and lets face it, that was a really, really bad Bradford team.

Saturday was an important step in the right direction but BN still has a lot of work to do, as do some of the players.

The reason he has not had a reply is because the post was rediculous.

If you seriously think for the first game of the season any coach would throw 2 unproven young lads in when there was no need to take such a gamble then you really need a reality check. Both players had not even played a first team game!!

The reality is Tomkins and Ainscough were both unproven squad players. Smith and Phelps (like it or not) started the season infront of them in the pecking order. To blame Noble for not picking Tomkins and Ainscough against Wakefield is unbelievable!

I think realistically we can win, but the performance is the most important thing, I don't think anyone expects us to go through the rest of the season unbeaten but as long as the poor performances are "one offs" instead of the good performances being "one offs" then a lot of the criticism will disappear, but after losing nearlly half our games last year and starting so poorly this, please let me and other noble doubters reserve judgement on changing our opinion.... and if the performences are poor how long will we have to wait until the "pro-noble" change theirs??

Dropping Smith was the biggest single management decision noble has made since being at the club... and I was shocked when he was ommited from the 17... but I didnt see his golden boy fielden being dropped when he was in a similar poor run of form in previous seasons . I think maybe noble has realised that his long honeymoon period at wigan is over and he has too show his worth on a more consistent basis, peoples opinions on websites and also from within the club have somewhat forced his hand to give ainscough and tomkins a chance and keep them there, I just wonder if ainscough and Tomkins hadn't made such dramatic impacts when given their chance whether Mathers/pryce/smith would have been in the 17 on saturday and if that is the case.. Is one game in the first team, giving youth a chance???

Sorry Jonh but you can't know that for certain. Nobby told me after the Cas defeat the players were not doing what they had practiced all week.

I have been told from a couple of sources, 1 being a poster on here that there is more to Smith being dropped than form, it is apparently a wider issue, so potentially again this crucial decision MAY well, if the mutterings are true, have been made for him.

What, you go the the game, go home to post on here, then turn out again?

Personally I would have thought that the first game of the season at home against a seriously depleted Wakefield side would be a good opportunity to give them a go. Our young players have to start somewhere.

Lets leave aside Smith for a moment, since he has the potential to be a good player (but clearly has fitness and other issues) and I suppose you can make out some kind of case there, although I wouldn't agree.

Are you seriously suggesting that BN did the right thing in picking Phelps ahead of Ainscough?

I can understand you wanting to defend BN generally (and I could just about get my head round an argument that BN did the right thing in picking Smith ahead of Tomkins) but that is ridiculous.

Finally. Something we agree on!

If the players are not doing what they are told who is to blame for this, if it was a one off then fair play the finger can be pointed directly at the players, if though on the other hand it is the case that good performances with the aspects discussed are a one off then the finger has to point towards the coach.

If he is sending them out with a game plan that they are not able to follow, then again you have to look at his failure to get the message across if it occurs on multiple occasions.

Coaching is not just about knowledge it is about comunicating that knowledge which if the players consistently fail to carry out what he thinks he is putting to them then that is a reflection of the failure on the coaches behalf.

In simple terms if i get my secutary at work to make me a cup of Tea but she brings me a coffee then 1 off i can say she made an error and i deal with it. If over the course of 10 days i ask for a cup of tea and on 8 occasions she brings me coffee, i have to start questioning myself and looking at what exactly I am doing wrong for her to fail in such a simple task. Random use of a situation, especially given i drink neither tea or coffee, but i think it gets the point across hopefully.

Why is when anyone even remotely critics Nobles team selection you jump down their throats? Are you Brian’s mum or something? Whats up are we picking on lickle Brian awh bless.

The fact of the matter is one of the main reasons we lost to what was a very weak Wakey side was Noble decided to employ a policy of musical positions by not having Sam on the bench. Lockers ended up at six FFS how can you not see a problem with this when we had a perfectly good HB sat in the stands? Admit Noble made a mistake-go on it won’t hurt……..

Now as far as I can see Sam hasn’t played many reserves games since the Wakefield game, he’s not added any extra weight or gained any more experience so I can’t for the life of me work out why Noble seemed to think it was ok to play him away to a much better Quins team than play him at home to a Injury ravaged Wakefield?

The highlighted bit is a little rich coming from you......So you assume I think the way the team played on friday had nothing to do with noble (now who's numb!) of course it had something to do with noble...as did the other games this season...oh and the last three as well .

But you choose to ignore that after one good game...

You also "imagine" I was one of the people who blasted lindsay for sacking coaches not so...in fact I blasted lindsay more when he appointed millward..

I once asked you who signed this team of wasters as you called them..only to be told that didn't matter (well you would not want to put noble in a position he has to answer for.....no doubt you blame IL for the likes of phelps and mathers).

By the way I've never gone on about noble not being able to coach anything but 5 drives and a kick-a theory...more for the teams poor predictable style of play ....now it seems there is another way forward with attacking flair and I look forward to more of the same. After all we are all wigan fans who want the best for the team. now we need to carry it on into the leeds game and the rest of the season....if noble is the man to take us forward so be it only time will tell.

This may be the case Johnh, I havent hear anything regarding Smith off field activities, but isnt it funny we have turned into a side that is based on "form rather than reputation" overnight. I just hope this statement of intent isn't just a flash in the pan and we move towards a team which is predominately made up of players who have come through our youth system.

I was listening to GMR on Sunday and they had an interview with Sam Tomkins after the bradford match and he said "I am loving it, it is all i ever wanted to do since I was the age of 6 (play for wigan).." This comment almost brought a tear to my eye!! I think the other comments he made about other players in the reserves "champing at the bit to be given their chance" is also quite significant... how long will it be before the other lads coming through get their chance??

Agree with this it was a very odd turn of phrase that he used it was something that stood out at the time, almost like a bit of a respectfull flip of the V's.

Ainscough's current form makes the decision to keep him in the reserves for so long look nonsensical. He's now played three times for the first team, and has been very good on each occasion. This isn't just a case of beginner's luck.

However, it pains me to see Wigan fans arguing bitterly over this sort of thing.

As someone else said, it isn't really a black and white issue. I don't think Nobby's been as good for Wigan as I hoped he was going to be when we first announced him. But a coach with his record can not just be written off as 'crap'. It can't be that simple.

Personally, I don't think I've ever called for him to be sacked, but I've certainly expressed disatisfaction and concern with the way his team has been playing these last few years. One or two good wins are just not adequate for a club like ours. Likewise, Noble's been slow to promote youth. Not as slow as some would claim, but he's clearly not been eager to pitch the kids in. However, I don't really buy this 'he only did it because he had to' viewpoint. I'd argue that most youngsters only really get their chance when injuries open doors for them. If they then kick on and show what they can do, and are subsequently left out again, that's a big question-mark against the coach's wisdom. But so far Noble hasn't done that. Prescott, O'Carroll and Joel Tomkins have all come to the fore under Noble, and - regardless of whether or not he was 'forced' to pick them in the first place - he's kept faith with them since, rewarding their efforts with regular selection. I can't understand why some Noble doubters continue to ignore this piece of evidence, and think it's very odd and contrary of them.

One thing I reckon we'll all agree on is that we hope what we saw on Saturday night will now continue through the season. If Noble can get this team to play like that for a good few months, I'd happily hand him another contract myself. The days of posters on here seeing Wigan defeats as small victories for themselves over rival posters seem thankfully to be a thing of the past.

I would also add to this there seemed to be some indication from AJ, RHJ and Brett that Noble was not "forced" to drop Smith, when there are some mutterings that suggest he was, something i was not aware of but something i asked a few people about after getting a PM on here, and there certainly seems to be some substance to it, from people closer to the club than me.

Not for a second saying it is 100% true as the people i asked are more fellow players who are friends of or once played at Wigan, with no direct link to Wigan if you like anymore, but it is another potentially very interesting twist, that may come out in time.

The problem Nobby has is that he can't get a new secretary but has to hope the one day the message gets through! On the face of Saturday's performance you could argue that it has but, as you say, It's all about how we kick on from here.

Re the current team selection if feel he has stumbled upon it to some extent but so what? The biggest factor for me was Piggy actually playing to something like the standard I expected of him. If anyone thought he had gone OK previously they must have needed the tissues on Saturday!

Exactly so the point is he has to look at himself and work on getting the message over, he can do this.

This has been my major issue with Noble his seemingly lack of ability to evolve, i think at half time vs Quins he had no choice or he would have been out on his ear, which may explain the change in ethos from that point on.

As i said i find it odd the players are a waist of space in some peoples eyes with poor skills etc etc when we are losing but Noble suddenly becomes a coaching guru and takes all the credit when we put in 1 good performance.