So when the players in your team take a knee, you think they are doing it as part of a marxist coup? Do you really, really believe that?

You seem upset that something with good intentions has been hijacked by people with certain views you and many others legitimately don't agree with. But by deliberately refusing to acknowledge the clear differences between someone like Michael Lawrence taking a knee (note not kneeling subserviently) and a radical political party you are contributing to and perpetuating the hijack.

People who refuse to see the difference between taking a knee and kneeling, the roots of taking the knee in peaceful demonstration against injustice and a radical political party and parrot "all lives matter" in response to anyone saying "black lives matter" do so to deliberately diminish what people are seeking to achieve. Things like comparing racism to being called a pie-eater sit in the same camp.

But there were always going to be those that did - it's the very reason the movement needs to exist in the first place.

I blame 5G and Bill Gates for people taking the knee.

You don't go out much do you?

Hey Egg Chasing, reading twitter and facebook does not constitute 'going out' for you.

How many times have you seen overt racism aimed directly to another person, not shouted at from the sidelines or typed on social media?

The players taking a knee makes them useful idiots if you're aware of that term, I presume you are by the great reply you've given. (Genuine).

Initially taking the knee was in solidarity for George Floyd and and changed into something else. I have no problem with people sticking up for George Floyd and the way he was killed, every single person in the world is on his side.

What I have an issue with is the way our brilliant police force has been thrown under the bus and is constantly called 'institutionally racist' which it is not, in fact, the opposite is true.

Also, with the way the movement changed what it was about makes me less inclined to support that movement regardless of its good intentions because who's to say in 12 months time what it will be campaigning for? Thats why politics and sport dont mix and shouldnt mix.

I dont want the club giving their take on Brexit, Ireland, Migration, Crime, Donald Trump, EU, China, Etc. because everyone has their views, I'd rather they just stuck to playing rugby.

I'm with the formula 1 guys who wore t shirts against racism rather than support a movement/group as it shows support for the anti-racism cause but doesn't get political. I hope I've got my point across because sometimes with all the typing I might not explain it properly.

No, for SOME it has changed into something else. And some want people to believe it has changed into something else for everybody, to diminish the cause.

For many it remains a simple, peaceful demonstration of solidarity not just for George Floyd but for the many millions of other incidents and injustices.

I have a slight issue with players (or anyone really) being called useful idiots for supporting a campaign against racism in a peaceful manner.

If you don't mind me saying, it seems to me that the useful idiots are those who constantly seek to muddy the waters by slinging around phrases like marxist coup and trying to project a belief system onto people who are simply trying to cast a light on deeply rooted historical and present day prejudice. The problem is that the people these idiots are useful for are the genuine racists.

For the avoidancve of doubt, I am not for one second saying that you are racist; I am sure that you are not.

Never heard anyone say the word "paki" in the streets then have you not? May not be shouted at someone but it is still racism.
You haven't see the actions of groups such as the EDL? I was unlucky enough to be on the same train as them once.

Racism on social media also counts, you can't claim it doesn't because it's on social media. Go on Ian Wright's Twitter and see the messages he was sent or a Wigan Athletic player who was called a monkey (can't remember his name). Racism from the sidelines also counts.

Social media, twitter especially, is the worst toxic scum bubble going and I avoid it.

With regards to encountering racism in the flesh, not on social media, 999 out of 1000 people are friendly regardless of race. Ive witnessed more anti-ginger abuse than anything towards other people, could that be described as racism?

The players themselves gave specific accounts of overt racism. I've seen it plenty in conversations in pubs or conversations with my own family (my families take on whos responsible for lockdown is a particularly interesting one, akin to a players recent twitter comment.)

Racism shouted from the terraces or typed on social media is still racism. You can't say its gone away and then say it happens on social media or on the sidelines. Racism isn't always overt. Thats half the battle/argument.

An argument of "I don't see it so it doesn't happen" isn't going to win many debates

There is quite a push to get that classed as such, as it should be. And yes, twitter is full of poop, but you still can't say racism doesnt exist because its on twitter and you avoid it

When was the last time you heard someone get arrested for being ginger? Passed over (on a CV, promotion, pay grade) for being ginger? Refused service, entry, stopped and search.... simply for being ginger? Until then you are comparing oranges with apples.

Ask someone who's experienced it, like Kris Radlinski said in his book, he believes its the only acceptable racism still happening.

In the 1950s when the Welsh rugby union wouldn't pick Billy Boston because he was black, rugby league accepted him. Same with many other players. Roy Francis was given a chance when black people weren't given coaching jobs.

Rugby League was anti-racist and treated people fairly 50 years before anyone else and we should be proud of that.

I look at facts and I see openly racist football crowds in Eastern Europe and that's were the focus needs to be, not in Rugby League because bar the odd idiot who might have shouted something from the terraces 20 years ago and further or post something on social media anonymously giving someone abuse I just think we as a sport should be proud of being trail blazers in it.

If the club or league wanted to support 'kick it out' then thats fine, I'd back them every time.

No

Would you boycott the club if they chose to show support for ginger people? What about the LGBTQ community with Pride Day?

If those ginger people were burning our flag at the Haig Memorial, desecrating war memorials and statues of Churchill, if those ginger people were against the nuclear family, anti-semitic and wanted to defund the police then yes. As for the LGBTQ they can do whatever they want in their bedrooms I couldn't give a toss, I just want to watch rugby.

Those gingers have been busy if they have all been doing that, rather than an incredibly small but convenient sample of them to tar a whole ginger population with.

Genuine question - who is against the nuclear family by the way? And what even is the "nuclear family"?

So just watch the game then
10 seconds before a game doesn't affect that does it?
If the players are doing it fine, why do you care, again if they don't that's fine also - Don't believe that people are doing things based on your perceptions and observations - They're doing it because They think it's the right thing not you

You need to go read the BLM fund raisers for the manifesto of desires... It's all very complicated, and not as straightforward as it first appears.

If you don't think there was racism in the 40s/50s/60's just because a few Black men got a game of rugby at a Professional club and that we don't need to keep making strides forward then heaven help us

I saw what players went through in the late 70s and all of the 80's & still continue to do so to this day

I can tell you've watched the BBC program about players from Wales coming to RL - And it did paint RL in a good light, advanced of other organisations in certain ways.
But go on the RL historians page and Roy Francis career was littered with things that don't paint such a good light.
He played something like 12 games at Wigan in 3 years, rumours certain directors didn't want him and didn't want him to play
Francis represented Great Britain but was controversially overlooked for one Ashes tour to Australia for political reasons, the organisers fearing the ructions that could be caused by travelling to a country with an infamous bar on non-white people
he scored 2 tries on his debut
He apparently should have played far more games for GB than the 1 Cap he got, wonder why?

“He was regarded as a certainty for the 1946 Ashes Tour to Australasia, but was omitted from the touring squad, as organisers feared that it may cause problems as Australia had in place at that time an infamous bar on non-white people.
[uHe moved to Australia to coach the North Sydney Bears in 1969 but his time Down Under was not a happy one and it is suspected he was again a victim of racism there.
Mr Dalton said: “It is believed that the fact that Roy was black sadly caused resentment in Australia, prompting him to return to the UK in 1971[/u
“What is little known about Roy’s early experience in rugby league was that he was a victim of racial prejudice – a common occurrence in sport at the time.

The BBC documentary painted a good picture of RL & it's acceptance of Welsh players, the fact some were Black from a professional point of view made no difference.
But ask Billy B about being left behind on a particular part of a GB tour, why?

Racism existed in the 40s/50s/60s - I witnessed it all through the 80s and continue to do so now, although it seems to be a snidey Social media type racism rather than your old fashioned face to face verbal abuse and beatings.

I am known to go out and have 1 or 2 occasionally (Ahem!) and I can honestly say that in all my years out I think I've seen 1 person taking drugs (And that was about a year ago). For the first 25 years of going out I never even give it a 2nd thought, but you know what, everyone was telling me it was rife!
Now whether I buried my head in the sand, or am just oblivious to it I don't know, But I do know it's taking place
And if anyone started a campaign in RL or society to Kick drugs out etc. I wouldn't use my own ignorance, head in the sand approach to measure the worth of the cause.
I wouldn't criticise Ex-Junkies, Current Junkies, and families of people who's lives are shattered by the issue that there isn't an issue. I wouldn't say Oh BTW that person were trying to help and who is trying to get better or make a difference once did something bad so were not going to help anybody
If one or two people jumped on that cause and twisted it for whatever reason for their own purposes I wouldn't tar all the people supporting it with the same brush, because it deflects away from the issue.

The Bile & vitriolic nature of Facebook & Twitter shows that there's a problem out there.
Meet any of these people with facts and they quickly resort to the old stereotypical Snowflake/Lefties/Marxists blah blah blah BS
But make no bones about it, Racism is alive & well unfortunately today and I suspect will be for a long time.
I applaud anyone who tries to do something about it, Because it's far more important than sport.

So all of this basically comes down to not being able to tell the difference between BLM the political movement and the fact that black lives matter and that racism needs to end.

I'd best not wear my GB shirt to another game in case people think I'm a member of Britain First.

My cousin is a proud ginger haired lesbian but does not agree with pride parades