I'm a massive fan of strong defense and I do admire and rate players who can tackle all day long, any team needs such a player.
All I said about Hansen was he won't be missed. I didn't mean this as a slate on HH but as a nod to the success of our squad meaning we had players who can cover and do an equally good job. In reflection this was justified with the results in HH's absence.
I also have never said anything about releasing McM, I just think we shouldn't overlook his weaknesses in such a key position just because he can tackle. I have often suggested trying him as a back up 13 or in the SR, liking his style to Luke O'Donnell which to me is a big compliment.

I can see this being the justification trotted out for seasons to come.

JUst like saints beat Wigan in the other grand final because Tim jonkers daddied andy farrell, like mm daddied roby.

Where did I say we 'daddied Roby'? Last Son Of Wigan said that McM being on the field sees a drop in our performances. Obviously not the case if you look at the GF performance, the WCC performance, and other notable performances with him in the side. We started him in the GF for a reason.

When he came on on Saturday we barely touched the football because Wire hit a hot streak. IMO it was down to Gareth Hock replacing Harrison Hansen and Prescott/Mossop replacing Lima/Coley. The subs didn't bed in straight away defensively and Wire were able to capitalise.

That's my opinion and some may disagree, but to say that the guy is pretty much useless and should be shown the door is ludicrous.

Who has ever said this? re-read my post, I even discuss trying him in a different position. Not once mentioned showing him the door.

McIlorum has started almost 3/4 of our games this year at 9. Where are we in the league? lol

You're right, we're a total one man team.

To look at things from the other perspective, what have most fans thought of our form for about 3/4 of our games this year? It seems form has improved since Leuluai moved to 9, or at least performances have.

Mcllorum didnt have the best of games on saturday but i'd rather have him in our team than not. Just look at him in the GF last year. He tackles anything, is great defensively, and will give his all. Just unfortunate he is being compared to a world cup and 4 nations winner. Not scared of anybody either.

Did I mention that you had said this?

Personally not comparing him to anyone, just feel we lack any direction when he is on the pitch.

Yes he has his good games, but they are few and far between.

Many hookers get slated for being one trick ponies in SL, but because MM is not a scooting expert he seems exempt from this criticism yet generally when anyone praises him on here it is for defence and heart......not enough for such an important player.

I agree to some extent. He's definitely not the best we could get. My biggest criticism of McIlorum has been his lack of consistency, but since Leuluai has moved to hooker it now looks like a lack of talent given that he's regularly out-shined. (I'm saying it looks like that, not that that is actually the case)

McIlorum's had good games but the last time I really saw him stand out in terms of all round performance was against Harlequins where he destroyed them, but he only played one half.

There's also not much consistency in his attacking performance during games. He'll make a good attacking run from dummy half then pass to the floor or be too slow with his distribution. It can be frustrating because if he could improve his attacking ability he could become a dangerous player.

There's no faulting his defence and his willingness to defend and that's why he's able to play at a high level, but there just seems to be a lack of input in attack which leads me to believe he could be at risk of losing his place to the likes of Tomkins or Carberry in the near future.

Is this forum real lol

trying your hardest and tackling like a terrier doesn't make a top class Hooker, he has is very mediocre in attack, he rarely breaks a tackle, he doesn't seem to have a sneaky side step or an inside pass, we are the champions we should be ruthless not sentimental, keeping a player because some fans like him don't really work does it, just look at the Feka situation and if some remedial person accuses me of comparing MM to Feka do yourself a favour and give your head a shake, you never you might hear it rattle

Bloody 'ell McIllorum!

New scapegoat?

Looks like it now that Lima & Finch have found their feet.

I wonder how someone as poor as MCIlorum could get a place in the England elite train on squad? Obviously better judges than most on here think that he has something to offer.

Everyone else was injured weren't they when he played in the Exiles game?

Steve McNamara?

I can't believe I've seen at least three people saying they would take Scott Moore over him. Trust me, if you watched him every week, you wouldn't.

I dont rate McIlorum but I would rather have him over Moore!

Mickey Higham was better than MM and he was never Wigan standard, tacklining don't mean poop when his main job is to get the forwards on a roll which is something he does do

Personally not sure he is a scape goat just not sure what he brings to the team in regards the hooking position. He may very well bring good defence and work ethic, but so did Malcolm Alker and I did not see many people wanting him at Wigan.

The fact is that both last year and this year, more often than not we are a much poorer unit when he is on the field, we lack direction around the field. A modern day hooker needs to guide us round the pitch, something Piggy did wonderfully and something Tommy seems to be getting the grasp of by the match.

A hooker needs to understand where we can launch moves from and work with our forwards to put us in that position, MM does not seem to have the ability to do this and we lose our shape and fluidity in attack.

Yes he has had some excellent games the Grand Final he was superb but they are the exception rather than the rule and personally I find myself thinking it is more of a damage limitation exercise when he is on the pitch rather than an opportunity to kick on.

I would rather see a scooting hooker on the bench than a hooker that struggles to get us on the front foot much of the time.

As for his international selection, I think that says more about the general level of British hookers than acts as a reflection for his excellent performance, but personally I still do not think he deserves to be in there off the back of his form this season, Roby and Houghton for me at the moment.

Higham wasn't/isn't a patch on McIllorum in any aspect. And while I don't rate MM that highly at all, Highams just god awful.

Agreed Jonh.
I actually like the look of Houghton. Developing well, no doubt his game would develop 10 fold under an excellent coach, anyone who pushes on under Agar deserves a medal.

Rinaldi over MM all week long!

may be wrong on this as I will hold my hand up I have had a few beers but once again it seemed to me we lost all momentum in attack and defence looked unorganized when we interchanged hookers.