Wellens is a better fullback than tomkins.You mention younger and fitter ,but what about the one on one defence,positional play,ability to read the game and coolness under the high ball .These are all the traits of a great fullback.

I would rather have shenton over gleeson
Meli over Roberts
Price is better than deacon
Eastmond has the potential to be a great the same as your implying about farrell
we havent seen enough of lima to make a judgement .
Roby is a country mile better than mcillorum
Graham is better than anything wigan have.
Soliola has only played a handfull of games in superleague but is a kiwi international and has done it in the nrl.So thats why i am picking him over tomkins who has potential but is a penalty machine.
Wilkin is a good player for saints as i9s oloughlin for wigan so we arent going to agree there.
Clough is a better player than mossop and has the potential to be even better.
Puletua over tuson anyday .
I will accept that farrell has the potential but it is only that .dixon when hes played has been steady for saints.
The rest are too close to call,

Goulding is nothing special, not saying he's bad player but any pro player could have done the same job last season with the game Wigan played.
When you think of great wingers he doesn't even enter my thoughts.

On the Wellens Tomkins debate.

If i could cherry pick any player for the Wire it would be Sam Tomkins BUT at FULLBACK it's Wellens all day long for me. Wellens is a fullback whereas Tomkins is a very good player who is playing at fullback.

I agree, but I'd still rather have him over Gardner.

Yes, haha - I was just about to post that we had a Cas or Wakey fan here last year that did the same sort of thing and was made to look very, very foolish indeed.

Soliola, despite having only managed a handful of SL games last season is definitely better than Joel because he's "a kiwi international and has done it in the nrl" - yet we haven't seen enough of Lima to know whether he's better on paper than McCarthy-Scarsbrook? Give your head a wobble.

Okay rather than call you out on your idiocy, i'll actually question you on the points that I feel need clarifying:

Meli over Roberts:

Why do you feel Francis Meli is a better Winger/Fullback than Amos Roberts? Amos was a front runner for the man of steel for 1/3 of last year, his side step is amazing, he has great awareness and his ability to play either Full Back or Wing are a god send for Wigan. What do you feel Meli has that make him a better player than Amos? Now it's not that he's a Saints player and i'm biased against him, I genuinely would like to know why you feel that.

Eastmond has potential, but Farrell has already shown he is good enough for SL, plus you are comparing Eastmond to a World Cup winning Hooker/Half Back. And we're comparing Farrell to another young English forward, it's hardly the same thing, really.

And Lima...You may not watch the NRL, but I know I do, and I have seen him in pre season and literally, he's looking like he's going to take the league by storm. I'm that certain i've had money on him for Man of Steel. Regardless of what you have seen, Lima is a top class Prop and is light years ahead of LMS, having played international level for many years, whereas LMS has kind of floundered down south, and, really if we think about it, his plaudits have been because he's Southerm.

Roby is a better player now that Mickey Mac, I have no problem with this.

Graham is a World Class player who would walk into our team, again no problem here.

Soliola is a Centre, not a Second Rower, and if you're saying 'We haven't seen enough of Lima' how then can you change your judgement and say well 'Soliola has done it in the NRL'. You can have it one or the other. Joel was in the dream team last year, at Second Row, saying he is one of the top 2 second rowers in the country. He was courted by Cronulla and has recently signed a lengthy contract at Wigan. It's a toss up because, Soliola is a very good player, but so is Joel, but i'd go for Joel because he hasn't just had a year out and is younger.

Sean O'Loughlin is the best loose forward in the country, possibly even the world. He is a tackling machine, has the ball skills of even the most skillful of halfback and has been the backbone of the Wigan side for many many years. Jon Wilkin has done nothing but moan in the press about various things, showing he is a petulant player. He also looks unfit. He is not in the same league as O'Loughlin. It is almost like comparing someone say - Phil Bailey with Paul Sculthorpe. If someone from Wigan did this back in the day, he'd have been laughed out of St Helens.

Clough has More SL experience than Mossop, so probably edges this one, Mossop has ALOT of untapped potential though.

Puletula is a better player than Tuson, no problem here.

Again with Farrell, he is a future Man of Steel and England star, I can't say the same for Dixon, no matter how many SL games each have played.

If you have any sensible reply to that, i'd welcome your opinion.

Shenton>Gleeson?



Wire/Wigan. I'd split us like this.

1. Hodgson
2. Monaghan
3. Gleeson
4. King
5. Richards
6. Tomkins
7. Briers
8. Morley
9. Monaghan
10.Lima
11.Westwood
12.Tomkins
13.O'Loughlin

14.Bridge
15.Leuluai(utility value)
16.Coley
17.Wood


That'd be one hell of a team.

You missed his point completely there. He was saying that Leeds specifically peaked for the business end of the season, rather than just one game. The points you compare there at the end of the season. Compare them to the 20 game point instead, and you might even find that Warrington had more points than any of those Leeds seasons. The reason been that early season form generally means absolutely nothing compared to end of season, so you can afford to drop points.

As a Leeds fan, I'm in agreement that Leeds won't be challenging this season for the big one, I saw it coming 2 years ago, that lack of been proactive to replace players approaching their end would catch up. But those saying they are now in decline and will be nothing in a few years are seriously deluded. I don't think Leeds have been outside the top 6 for more than 3 seasons since Super League began, it might even be 2. So why would they decline to mid table now.

There is still a new batch of youngsters coming through, and of course they will be forced in next 12 months to replace plenty of the aged players, also freeing up plenty cap. So don't get so deluded for future years. You can have your 2011, Wigan and Wire, but it won't be so easy after that.

Gardner is shocking, Just take a look at his try scoring exploits after he stopped getting fallovers from Gidley.

How did peaking at business end go for you last season?

You must have been distraught at how the season turned out last year then.

Who's price?

Wilkin is not in Sean's league

Clough better than Mossop



Dixon's not fit to lace Farrell's boots.

At the end of the day we're Champions your not

hahahahahahahaha...............

If the above was true then I'm struggling to understand why you didn't run away with league last season.

My (and a multitude of others) thoughts also.

That gave me a laugh, untill i realised you may be serious

This was the classic one for me.
Kyle Eastmond - A young player with plenty of potential but a player suffering with biscuit bones who missed half of last season, coming out on top against the current Harry Sunderland Trophy Holder, Current Four Nations & World Cup winner.

Bias of biblical proportions.

Ok then i will respond.
Firstly Meli and roberts.Meli has been ever present in the last 3 seasons for saints scoring regularly over 15 tries a season and helping them to the last 4 grand finals and numerous challenge cup finals.Roberts had a great opening third of the season last year ,but that is all.Before last season he was average as were most of wigans players .

Leululei and Eastmond.I saw leuileui for new zealand in the world cup and he was moved to hooker in the games because he was ineffective in the scrum half role( i think hes a better hooker,but not in robys league).Eastmond because of his age only burst on the scene last year and when fit showed the true potential that he had .Some of the tries he scored where sensational and if he can keep fit will become one of the best we have had.

Lima and Louis .I have not seen that much of lima but by all acounts he could be a great player for wigan .Time will tell (as it will with lms ,perry and soliola)

Sean O'Loughlin and Wilkin.We will have to agree to disagree here as sean has had one really good season and you won the grand final .But to say that he is the best loose forward in the world is ludricous.a good club captain who tackles hard ,but like tomkins he is a penalty machine whose discipline is woeful.

As for Farrel time will tell..

You win.

We're $hit, you're brilliant.
MM tickets on the fire, coach cancelled.
Get on the phone to the bookies, tell them they're wrong.

NO.One good season from wigan and all of a sudden you are the Best side ever again. Nobody else better bother turning up !!

wow, wow, wow...........you're the one coming out with silly suggestions of just one Wigan player being deemed good enough to get into the Saints team.

One thing recent history will tell you that Saints will be competitive again and will be there and thereabouts.

I'd prefer a much more balanced view from a Saints supporter: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=481948 Quote GRAND FINAL CERTS Wigan Warriors The only team which I clearly envisage being at Old Trafford come the big day. Wigan have recruited three players where they needed it. Two of the biggest weaknesses in the Wigan side were addressed with the arrival of Finch and Lima. With a half back of Finch’s quality you expect Wigan to be able to control the game a lot better which is not good news for the other teams. Lima helps out a front row who probably over performed last year in no small part thanks to a tough defence and quick play the ball which minimised the impact of their lack of physical power in yardage making. More work with Maguire alongside these new recruits makes this a very difficult to team to topple especially as their closest contenders aren’t gaining as much as Wigan appear to have. Aiming for… back-to-back titles. Should be happy with… appearing in either final. Need to avoid… not making a final.'"

I'd prefer a much more balanced view from a Saints supporter: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=481948 Quote GRAND FINAL CERTS Wigan Warriors The only team which I clearly envisage being at Old Trafford come the big day. Wigan have recruited three players where they needed it. Two of the biggest weaknesses in the Wigan side were addressed with the arrival of Finch and Lima. With a half back of Finch’s quality you expect Wigan to be able to control the game a lot better which is not good news for the other teams. Lima helps out a front row who probably over performed last year in no small part thanks to a tough defence and quick play the ball which minimised the impact of their lack of physical power in yardage making. More work with Maguire alongside these new recruits makes this a very difficult to team to topple especially as their closest contenders aren’t gaining as much as Wigan appear to have. Aiming for… back-to-back titles. Should be happy with… appearing in either final. Need to avoid… not making a final.'"

So why is it that Wilkin gave away 7 more penalties in 8 less games than Lockers last year?



So had you seen that much of Soliola then? As Lima was also a proven NRL performer and a NZ international, and that seemed to be enough to make Soliola better than Tomkins (despite SS looking pretty average in his brief appearances at the end of last year) whilst also playing out of position.



Only burst onto the scene in the last year? Is that 2010 or supposed to be 2009? He made 13 apps in 08, 14 in 09 and 19 last year. I agree he's showed glimpses of pure talent, but he's not done it on anywhere a consistent enough basis, whether thats through form or fitness I don't know. He's not been the all-conquering team leader that it was hoped by this stage (although I hope he becomes it).



So despite Roberts having a pretty good scoring record in the NRL as well, because he had 1 (that's right, 1!) average year before last year when he was destined to be heading to MOS before his injury struck. If he's fit I know who I'd have in my side.

Oh, and also Roberts' "average" year, wasn't that bad compared to Meli's consistent performances that year! [url=http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2009&hp1=2028&hs2=2009&hp2=1130&stat=tries&season=2010Who was average?[/url