Anybody can select stats to suit their agenda Rogues Gallery.

I decided to compare like for like. Two experienced highly paid prop forwards. Whose stats are better.

[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2009&hp1=19&hs2=2009&hp2=29&stat=marker_tackles&season=2009[/url

It is a shame there is not a RL Top Trumps set

One telling stat that is very true is the Carries stat. The main one I noticed is his comparison to Feka in Rogues post.

It says on from the same number of games (21) that Feka has only made 3 less than Fielden.

Now when we all know Fielden is on the pitch far longer than Feka that is an embarrasing stat. Forget how many metres are made with these carries for this point but the fact Fielden is hardly making more drives with his additional time on the pitch is a sign he isnt putting the effort in in attack, even if he isnt making good metres in those drives he should atleast be taking the ball up and doing some of the work while on the pitch.

From that stat he looks to me to be hiding from the attacking work. Something no prop should do.

Very well observed. Look at Fieldens carries v Jamie Peacocks or Adrian Morley

I wouldn't say he hides from attacking work, there seems to be a reluctance from our dummy halfs and half backs to give him the ball at certain times

as i've mentioned earlier in the thread, if anyone has the game on sky+ or recorded, watch it back and in the second half on 6-7 occasions he was available for a carry and they passed the ball past him to someone else

It is obvious that Fielden is not the player he was. That's for sure. But the key question is: WHY?

Most - including myself - have cited burnout, but whilst it's an easy label to apply, the evidence supporting that disorder seems less than perfect. Which means whatever treatment is most effective for it can never be an absolute panacea. Psychological burnout seems akin to something along the lines of depression. And that cannot be fixed - only treated.

That leaves injury. Given the expert level of medical care available to professional sportsmen and the now considerable length of time Fielden has been underperforming it is unlikely he'll suddenly spring back into being the Fielden of old. I remember Paul Groves going from the being the best hooker in the league to one of the least effective and staying there because of a long term debilitating back injury.

If Fielden has a smashed back (something like what ended young Mark Welsby's career at Wigan), or a troublesome groin (Hanley) or a painful Achilles that's pretty much it as far as his career goes. Current medical technology simply hasn't reached the point where those problems can be rectified.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"I just thought I'd see how bad / good was on comparison to the other Wigan props. v Coley [urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2009&hp1=420&hs2=2009&hp2=29&stat=marker_tackles&season=2009[/url v Prescott www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009 v Feka [urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2009&hp1=1135&hs2=2009&hp2=29&stat=marker_tackles&season=2009[/url Now those stats suggest to me that he is still our best ALLROUND prop particularly defensively around the ruck. What he needs to do is cut out the errors and penalties.'" Coley - beats him for metres per carry, offloads, clean breaks, makes less errors and misses less tackles. Fielden makes more tackles and marker tackles as expected. I refuse to believe the tackle busts stat, they must work it out in a weird way because I don't believe that Stuart Fielden busts about 4 tackles a game. Prescott - exactly the same as above, except clean breaks as neither have made one, also Prescott gives away less penalties. Paleaaesina - exactly the same as above, Feka's made 3 clean breaks and scored a try too. To conclude, all 3 appear to be better in attack, but worse in defence, and give away less penalties and make fewer errors. As nearly everyone said before checking out the stats. Having said that the tackle busts one does appear to go against what I say (except for Feka, who still beats him on tackle busts) but I don't believe it to be accurate, apparently Fielden has bust more tackles than Peacock, Graham and Morley, get him in an England shirt!

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"I just thought I'd see how bad / good was on comparison to the other Wigan props. v Coley [urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2009&hp1=420&hs2=2009&hp2=29&stat=marker_tackles&season=2009[/url v Prescott www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009 v Feka [urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2009&hp1=1135&hs2=2009&hp2=29&stat=marker_tackles&season=2009[/url Now those stats suggest to me that he is still our best ALLROUND prop particularly defensively around the ruck. What he needs to do is cut out the errors and penalties.'" Coley - beats him for metres per carry, offloads, clean breaks, makes less errors and misses less tackles. Fielden makes more tackles and marker tackles as expected. I refuse to believe the tackle busts stat, they must work it out in a weird way because I don't believe that Stuart Fielden busts about 4 tackles a game. Prescott - exactly the same as above, except clean breaks as neither have made one, also Prescott gives away less penalties. Paleaaesina - exactly the same as above, Feka's made 3 clean breaks and scored a try too. To conclude, all 3 appear to be better in attack, but worse in defence, and give away less penalties and make fewer errors. As nearly everyone said before checking out the stats. Having said that the tackle busts one does appear to go against what I say (except for Feka, who still beats him on tackle busts) but I don't believe it to be accurate, apparently Fielden has bust more tackles than Peacock, Graham and Morley, get him in an England shirt!

I think they count people not tackling him and by that I mean when he bumps off would be tacklers, which he does a lot.

That's true when you watch him he bumps off the first tackler nearly every time but instead of continuing forward he just turns 90 degrees and runs laterally, hardly making any meters at all.

Although it's not ideal, it does make the defenders work twice as hard.

True it does, but it also makes Fielden work twice as hard as well, and perhaps it's the reason why he look's lethargic and is dominated a lot in the tackle area.

The problem with his technique is he doesnt bump that man off by charging through them, he hits the 1st man turning all his speed into a stomp that means that the 1st man almost always bounces off and he says stood. But the problem is then he is stationary and the next man puts him down much easier.

Compare that to Feka's technique of driving into the tackle and making sure his legs keep on pedalling, not only meaning he keeps moviong forward but also makes it hard to grab his legs while their still moving. This IMO is a perfect driving technique for a prop.

IMO if Fielden did this rather than his stomp and stop style he would be far more effective as im sure he would still bounce the 1st man off if he was running full speed just as he does when he stops to brace for the tackle.

Coley is a great example of how driving in the tackle is so important, he doesnt exactly run with all his effort into the tackle but once men are on him he always pushes them back by continuing to drive hard with his legs.

The tackle busts reflect how broken Fielden is. He is now afraid to try to run through the gap/at defenders so he either does his bump ploy or he hits the ground upon impact. He has little natural RL skill because he did not play the game seriously until his late teens.

Hang on a minute that sounds like the kind of advice a coach would give to a player to improve his game, right another thing to add to my list of why I want Noble out, "Not coaching the players correctly" oh hang on a minute that was the first thing I wrote on my list, that he's not improved players personal performance while he's been at the club.

Whether we like it or not he will be here next season.

There really is no excuses for IL at the end of next season because we have so many players coming off contract and there are many more quality players going to be available.

Tbh What i can see happening is this..just like higham towards the end of next season he will probs try book his ideas up for a new contract we will either fall for it and give him a contract (if noble stays) and he will be Sh*t again( because as i rember towards the england he was in a bit of form to try get to england ,dint get their then stopped makin effot)

or it'll be our look for him to gain form at a club like wire,saints or leeds

on lower money .

get rid asap

would rather have o'barrell in the team than the useless pudding that is stuart fielden

Fielden is used in a different way to Peacock, Fielden is there in the Wigan side to compensate for Feka's lack of defensive qualities, that is why he comes on at the same time Feka does. feka's job is to carry the ball in, Fielden's is too cover for Feka, once Feka does at least 2 run's the opposition target him in the defensive line, Fielden's job is to protect him. IMO we would see a better Fielden if we got rid of Feka, as that not doing too happen he will keep having to do his thankless task, and keep taking the e from people like you. No offence.

None of that explains why Fielden is garbage when carrying the ball.

If you truely believe that the worlds gone mad!

So Fielden is cack because Mason punched him, because he doesn't have 3 big units at the side of him like he did at Bradford, because of off-field trauma's, because of burn out, because he's lost his passion for the game and now because he's being used solely to drag Feka's ar*e through a game



In truth it's a mixture of a few of those but whatever way we look at it he's pretty much a spent force.

I'd consider him to be doing an ok job if he were on 60-70k a year but he's not, he's our highest paid and most experienced player so therefore he should be producing the very highest quality rugby.

Thankyou for the insult. I believe people are allowed to disagree?

Can I point out that your whole view is based on a misconception on your part. Namely, that Fielden and feka are a pair thay play together to produce a single player. A single player that costs nearly £500,000 pounds each season and leaves Wigan apparently with only 12 players v 13.

It is a misconception on your part because Fielden has not always come off the reserve bench alongside Feka. Very often Fielden started games until recently and of course when Feka goes off the field of play, Fielden is still there.

Even allowing for your misconception how is Jamie Peacock able to do both parts of the props job specification and Stuart Fielden can only do 1 or neither

Exactly. He has no natural feel for the sport because he started playing the game too late. He benefitted from having a great conditioner early in his career. The sport moved on and Fielden lost the conditioner who built him up physically.

I had to leave for an overseas project at short notice. I'm sorry Stuart.

You also Wrote this!

NickyKiss Wrote
Got to be honest i've literally just finished watching the replay and was going to come on and post how suprised i was at Fieldens level of preformence.

Watching it closer and out of the heat of the moment he got us some momentum in the 2nd half by constantly finding his front and not getting turned on his back. He didn't made many metres at all but didn't get dominated either.

He did however miss a couple of poor tackles in the first half and made a handling error but overall his preformence was decent.

He can preform so much better for us though. I'd just like to see him look more 'up' for games.

He looks very flat at the moment.

Lets just get something straight about this, Fielden is what 60/70% of the player of 3/4 years ago?????

His wages are whatever they are, we can't do anything about that and irrespective of What we are paying a player I try to look at whether he actually deserves a place in the team.

Fielden I admit has been a disappointment compared to the Very High expectations we ALL had of him.

HOWEVER

There are many things he does bring to the team that aren't "Special" but are needed by the team to make us more effective and these things are often not the Eye Catching things that are Noticed ala Bailey/O'Loughlin

Theres no doubt he's covering Fekas backside in the tackling department and the partnership they seem to have is working in that we no longer seem to look vulnerable just before & Just after HT when Feka is usually on.

His yards per carry arent actually any different than what they have been for the past 5 or 6 seasons inc the season he was ajudged Best forward in the world!

He is making more tackles per game than he has at Any Time in his career and Pro Rata (Considering he's only playing 45/55 minutes each week now comapred to 80 minutes in 2004/2005/2006/2007) He is Averaging Massively more per game.

I believe the Only part of the game (And I admit it was probably the Part we bought him for!) is the Attacking/breaking the line prop of 2005 early 2006!

According to the Stats he used to make 14/15 Clean Breaks a season at bradford, Whilst at Wigan he's made 4 in 3 seasons!!!!!!!!!!!!

However he's now averaging 25/26 tackles a game when only playing what 50mins a game???
He used to average 21/22 tackles a game when playing 80!!!!!!!!

Overall

A disappointment - Yes!

Has he shirked the workload - No!
And given he's probably taking a lot of Payback from other forwards he has dished it out to over the years he's still there week in week out and very rarely misses a game in a Sport where he could find an excuse/injury Not to play each week and collect his money without trying!

That's a really enlightening post.
I think the tackles thing could be down to these days you get two or three men in EVERY tackle. Don't know though, you raised some interesting points.

Very interesting points you have raised here - surprising too!

I think you've just thrown a spanner in the works