I'm not sure.

The way SL is currently structured means form at this time of the year means very little in the grand scheme of things. Sure a few of the Stains trolls put "League Leaders Shield" in their list of honours, but to those in the know this "honour" means very little indeed.

It's all about peaking at the right time. The reality is that though the Good Friday game versus Stains is the source of much interest and, dare I say it, emotion, it means very little in the grand scheme of things as far as winning or losing SL.



That said, games like Catalan DO mean something. Losing games like this puts extra strain on our 2nd season effort. Too much effort in getting to the playoffs will mean nothing left in the tank for them.


Hence I am torn between two positions atm.

Go, admit it. You are realising that it isn't just about peaking at the right time at all. If you peak for the playoffs but are in a low playoff position the likelihood is you won't get to the GF. League games at this end of the season are just as important as those in the 2nd half of the season because points in the bag now means you are not in the position of having to win the majority of you later games to get a good play off place. We are already in that position.

Dave

On Brian Noble ,i don't think he is getting the best from the squad or even close to it at times, some of this i believe is a lack of faith in him from some the players and some are just in the 1st team comfort zone .

We suffer with a lack of direction and enthusiasm on to many occasions on both attack and defense how often do we see the same mistakes and indecision, for me this partly down to the game plan and partly down to failure of basic ball skills under the pressure of the game, and the plan structure .

One of the most worrying things for me is the lack of improvement in individual players in the first team in both skills and fitness with the same mistakes and performances being accepted week in week out or seemingly so.

We are also far to slow in getting back behind the ball and packing down at scrums the body language at these times is awful even when chasing the game .

With the facility's we have at our disposal at orrell fitness and skills should not be an issue , or perhaps it's to easy having everything they want at there beck and call and it's that comfort zone again .

p.s I'm not BN biggest fan but i don' t think he is solely responsible for our failings, but the buck stops with him .
My views as a supporter .

No, I still don't think they are.

I think if you accept that Leeds and Stains will be in the top 4 (with current squads) then effectively we are playing for the other 2 spots.

Losing vs Stains isn't an issue. Losing vs our competitors is.


Tbh all you have to aim for this season is top 4. The actual order is irrelevant.

So the key to your argument is the acceptance of Leeds and Saints dominance. That may be true at the moment in practical terms but as a general principle the idea is to get to 1st or 2nd.

You can't form a general principle that you only need to get into the top 4 because no one else is as good as those two.

Had we won the games we thought we ought (i.e. only losing to Leeds and Saints) we would still be in with a shout of that. We are not now because we have already lost 7 games.

Dave

LOST 7 Games!!!! Sometimes you have to see the facts written down to believe them!!! dreadful utterly dreadful...

Eddie on Sky said Celtics have been playing quite well and a win is just around the corner... might that corner be Stadium Way???

Iv'e already started practicing my "booing" technique for Sunday!!!
Just in case

No doubt the boo boys will be out in force on Sunday.

If we are beaten and play poorly what would you expect people to do, is it wrong to show your feelings . I presume you do expect us to lose with your post .

I don't BOO, but if it ends up 8 losses from 11 games... Maybe IL needs a push in the "right" direction??....

The highlighted part is were this argument falls down

but seriously, no celtic could, if they dont improve, make a full season without a win. They are miles behind everyone else. If somehow they do scrape a win over wigan, the positives (noble out) may outway the negatives (humiliation). it wont happen though

We had better beat these jubs by about 30 points at least, if not I will be livid!

I don't think we will lose but of course things won't go our way and people will become frustrated and inevitably boo

To the booers, who will you be aiming your boos at? The players or the coach? And how do you think they will make the distinction whilst on the pitch? If you're going to start booing because of Noble, the players will think you're getting on their back and we've already seen, booing doesn't change anything.

Totally agree, it seems too many people believe in the modern wishy washy approach which seems to have been championed in teaching and parenting. Focus on the positives, brush the negatives under the carpet. Brilliant isn't it.

Didn't they nearlly beat Saints?? That doesn't sound like miles to me... but I get your point..
Are Celtics better than Barrow?? if so, they have a chance..

Wigan 66 Hull 6 [urlhttp://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby_league/s/1060947_wigan_66_hull_6[/url

"Jeered off last week after their performance against Huddersfield, Wigan were given a standing ovation after thrashing the visiting Challenge Cup finalists.

And it proved to be just what It was just what the doctor ordered for Brian Noble's players who responded with five tries in the first half, with three coming inside the opening quarter as Hull were torn apart."

You rested some of your best players for barrow and against saints they defended and defended, they never got in our twenty. They have some half decet players who are injured, so when they come back they may improve, but not before the weekend

I see and agree with some of what your saying their is time and a place for these things, but it's peoples emotions that rule most of the booing , but what i can't understand is some of the happy clapping that goes on even when theirs been a lack of effort .

I hope your right but going off what I've seen this year including barrow i'm not to confident , how far have we slipped .

Were you at that match? An amateur side would have beat Hull that night.

I don't think the boos had anything to do with it, as proved by the week after the match with quotes from Noble and the players who 'did it for themselves'.

After listening to Cullen



on boots and all i hope we put 100 on them. the obnoxious git .

The Wigan players went into that match to prove a point, Hull were poor but if Wigan went into every match wanting to prove a point we'd be much better than 3/10

For this season the pragmatic approach is to do just that.


As for the general principle that you only need to get into the top 4, then that is correct. Under the current rules (which incidentally I don't support), then you do.



I agree with your last point and indeed have made this already.

It is IMO ultimately futile. The horse has bolted.




So there is no advantage of finishing 1st or 2nd? If there is an advantage you have to start each season aiming for 1st and 2nd and to do that means what you need to do now is no different than pre the play off system which is get results from day 1 and be consistent.

I also think any side that doesn't do this will, even of they make the top four, not be good enough to win the thing. A consistent league performance says much about the actual quality of the side and inconsistent sides will 99 times out of 100 not get the GF. I'd like a better chance than that and the only we we are going to see Wigan in a GF is if they start the season well and keep it up IMO.

Dave

The starting well argument doesn't really matter as long as you do improve, at this point last season Saints where 5/10 and many had the knives out about them being finished - but after that a 24 game unbeaten run (only Wigan took a point off us before the GF) saw us finish top clearly and win the CCup...

I appreciate we have had previous form too improve last seasn but Wigan have shown in this season against Saints and much more against Bradford (for all their woes you are the only team to slap them) that you can play good rugby.

From a Wigan POV I do agree with all the Noble out people though, as soon as you can get a good quality replacement otherwise I can't see you winning anything unless something drammatically changes before that.