Up until the Saints game I thought Sam Tomkins come back had gone extremely well. Yes he's a different type of player to the one who burst on the scene but he was far more effective in other ways. He then gets an injury against Wakey, misses a week and since coming back he doesn't look quite right.

It simply screams to me that he's carrying that injury. His concentration has looked poor as though his mind is elsewhere.

I hope that he has a good pre season and next year we will see a more confident ST.
I'm wth you until his injury this season he absolutely improved us as a team.
Hopefully he just needs time and a bit of tlc.
A top class rugby player who we need in the future to turn things around.

Yes. Badly. I think it's starting to look like a longer-odds bet, though.

Whilst I agree that we lacked any kind of creativity, we were also missing quite a few strike players. The likes of Gelling and Joel can create things out wide, whilst Farrell is an attacking threat also. Throw in Josh and you've got four international strike players that were missing. Of course that doesn't excuse our lack of spark close to the line but in a SC sport must surely be taken into account?

In relation to our attack or lack of I actually don't have a problem with "the move" every team in the world does it more of less with varying degrees of success. On the back of go forward and quick play the balls it does generate all kinds of problems as every runner is an option runner which should cause all kids of doubt in an under pressure defence.

We however do something different which sees "the move" as very easy to counter. We fail to earn the right to put it on. We simply put it on after a couple of basic 1 out drives with no forward momentum. The defences we are putting it against because of our poor build up are nearly always set and organised.

If we had a few more ideas around the ruck, and a few more bodies in motion on the tackles leading up to the set up then it would have far more positive results. Lining it up against an organised set defence who are not on the back foot renders it totally ineffective.

What has happened to the execution of set plays. It was never this bad.

So many bad passes or dropped balls all season.

In order top do what you suggest we are crying out for some creativity/flair at hooker - something we have not had since Riddel left, neither Powell or MM offer that. Someone to get the opposition on the back foot - even Higham offered that with his scoots from dummy half. Now - nothing just a sloppy, slow loopy pass to the next player in the line.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who isn't impressed with our dummy half play. Neither MM or Powell offer quick ball or a running option from the play the ball, easy to read and slows down everything we do after. MM brings aggression, Powell brings effort, work rate and good defence, neither bring any real creativity.

I wonder if that's because they haven't got it or because they're not allowed to show it.

I think it's as much the latter as anything. Our dummy half is simply expected to get a decent pass away to start our 'move'. If they decide to run it or try something a bit different that goes away from the plan.

Neither player offers quick ball from dummy half, which effects everything we do after as it gives defence time to move up, considering we have very few plays it puts even more pressure on the ball players.

For me, one of the fundamental skills is knowing how to set yourself to get quick ball out, they don't have a clue and nobody at the club appears to see it as an issue and improve it. It baffles me that we are slow from the start of every single play, as none of them run with the ball we are also predictable. So after slow and predictable play the ball, we then get to slow and predictable half backs, apart from the odd flash from Williams. We are fundamentally flawed and Wane doesn't see it as an issue as it's gotten worse, not better.

There seems to be so much despondency on here. Is the style of rugby you are playing the only reason the gates are dropping and your normally good travelling support is falling drastically ??
At Hull we had to suffer the Agar years where we also played one up Rugby that was dour and boring, the very opposite of entertaining. The result of in-action from an inept board that proved almost terminal.

Agar had inherited a very healthy attendance level at home , (The away support has always been pretty good) and the home support was quite resilient and loyal, it held pretty well despite our frustrations with him. But when it started to wane it just kept on dropping and dropping, even through Peter Gentles reign which did show some promise, the slide slowly continued.
By the time Radders came in, there were many doubters of our new young coach and we had dropped fully 4 k from the best of the pre-Agar years to around the 10k mark.
And now even after a season of success and more importantly a winning team that is good to watch it has proven hard to get back the stay away fans. There is no doubt a feel good factor is returning to Hull FC and fans are starting to come back and take a look, but boy once you've lost them its hard to get them back.
The good news about Wembley is that ALL the missing supporters will be there, + all the fair weather supporters and all the lets have a day at the final supporters. Everyone.
If we lose, our average home gate will still grow. However should we win I think we will see a smart upturn in pass holders and our gate could well be back where it was at its highest KC stadium level, and so it should be, Radders has done brilliantly.

So in our experience, when the team is not playing good stuff to watch, and the fan base is on the slippery slope, the time to sort it is now before you lose 4k worth of supporters.

One critical point I should make, is that i was very very surprised and disappointed at what was an amazingly poor turnout at Doncaster. There are simply no excuses, certainly not the travel time, its only 80 miles and its a semi final. you should have been there, even though your peed off with things. It could have made the difference for you.

Lord only knows what your players felt when they came out and saw the towns level of interest in them progressing through a difficult game. As you are all aware it ended up being a reflection on Wigans once loyal support and on TV it also reflected badly on our great game too. That is so disappointing. That semifinal was a showpiece event that lived up to its billing. The missing Wiganers let down your club and the game.

We met Warrington in a CC semi-final 3 years ago as underdogs. We had to travel a similar distance to that you did on Friday to Donny. Even had it been a Friday night it would have made no difference as you well know, we would have been there for our team. On that day we more than matched a very good Wire turnout.
Come on ! The game needs a strong Wigan and strong Wigan support, you need to get this sorted out before it becomes your own near terminal Agar effect. No team is immune from a slide, especially when the fans start to walk.

I'm sure the point about it being hard to get deserting fans back is a good one. As you say, you really can't afford to let things slide further. We'll see what next season brings.

This is the reason that I get so annoyed.
Fans have already deserted the club and next year the decline will move on at a pace. If we were playing anything like we would have at least trebled the turnout last Friday.
I think I saw somewhere that next year's signings are already in place with TL JB and Frank. As much as I admire JB the thought of him wasting away on the wing just doesn't float my boat and encourage me to renew my ST.
The decline started in earnest in 2014 but was bubbling away the previous year even though we won silverware.
I like SW as a person and it's obvious he loves the club but unfortunately that isn't enough.
IL must make some moves on the coaching front and look to offload several first teamers who are just not up to it or over the hill. If TL can perform the role that say Gidley gives Wire that is a step in the right direction but on its own it just isn't even close to resolving fundemental issues.
Our backrow is too small and they are all cut from the same cloth. A backrow containing Farrell and Bateman is too small to trouble any half decent team. The management team after we got battered by the Roosters said we were too little but have nothing to address this.
The front row is basically useless in getting us on the front foot. Frank hopefully will improve us in this area but other bigger props are a necessity.
Hookers offer nothing in asking questions of the opposition. Being a tough hooker is a given but with nothing else to offer basically just doesn't cut it.
One young still unproven centre is almost criminal. I except that centre is probably the most difficult position to fill with decent quality players but Gelling and Isa as the other centre and backup makes me wince.
The halves can be fixed for me if ST plays at 6 and Willams at 7. If ST does go to 6 that means we need a 1 and a goal kicker.
As well as new coaches and fitness team for me we need quite a few new first teamers. Personally I could buy into a 3 or 4 year rebuilding programme without any silverware but at least there would be a plan. At the moment the only plans appears to be buyback old first teamers and work hard.
I genuinely think we are back to the Noble era in that we try hard but just aren't good enough.
I would to know what is going through IL's mind at the moment as he sees falling attendances and a team that just can't win important matches.

It is almost 90 miles and the average travel time from people I spoke to at the game was 2.5 to 3 hours. It was horrendous. It would have been quicker for Wigan fans to travel and play you at your home ground.
Friday night is a BIG difference for people who work (I'm lucky I'm retired)
When you played Wire at Huddersfield it was a Sunday game and Huddersfield is much easier to get to than Doncaster. Tee attendance was 10,621 only just above Fridays attendance.

No problem with playing the game at Doncaster, but it should have been either Saturday or Sunday, particularly as Wire have to play Saints on Thursday, a short turn around!!

Left about 3.45pm - Got to ground just after 7
Half day off work required

Here's my 2p...

I'm genuinely not that bothered about the CC these days, it's a bit of a non-event for me. Good for the clubs coffers no doubt and a nice bit of silverware but it's a distraction from the main event which is the GF.

However I would've gone if it had been on Saturday or Sunday, literally just couldn't get there unless I wanted to turn up at half time. I guarantee many others were the same.

He's been a Wigan fan all his life and has watched Wigan for decades. He knows enough about the game to recognise what is being served up is substandard and tactically poor.

So I'd like to know how he squares what he has seen this season and last with no fundamental change.

Perhaps he thinks losing to Leeds in the GF meant things can't be that bad because we go to the final but that would be ignoring why we didn't win which was down to failing to score points when we had Leeds under pressure - the exact same problem we have had all this season.

Perhaps he thinks it's the injuries that are the problem this season but then I'd point to last season when we didn't have an injury crisis and the attack was predictable and the rest of the tactics the same.

He didn't fire Noble when we were heading the same way and gave him a chance to prove himself. We are now in another similar phase where the fans are getting seriously fed up with the way the team plays. Wigan used to have a reputation to be quick to get shut of coaches and I know IL wanted to move away from that but I think he needs to act now.

We stand a good chance of being in the top four and as it is knockout football then, anything can happen. Other sides can have injuries, ref decisions go our way and we could even find some form (!) but even if this happens it would be writing off all the league games and fans will just turn up for finals if this season is to be typical of the regular rounds.

Left at 12.45pm and got to the hotel, near the ground, at just before half past four. I went over the Woodhead Pass because I live in Northwich. An absolute nightmare of a journey. Ironically the Woodhead section was the only one where the traffic moved freely. The rest of the journey was all motorway, M56, M67, M1 and M18 - all snarled up. Even though it was a ball ache, Doncaster wasn't the problem. The problem was playing the game on Friday night.

To be fair he wanted MM but had to wait a year so gave Noble another year so in effect wrote of the year.

Just turning up for finals wouldn't be financially viable.
My concern is that his other interests totally outweigh Wigan in terms of time and investment.
He has been particularly quiet of late which for me is a little disappointing unless he has already made up his mind?

"The club" will be business as usual certainly for the remainder season i.e. no change no risk taking.
I'd love SW to give Shorrocks a starting role at the expense of Smith and just tell the team to go out and play. Try something different, just acknowledge all is not well and it isn't the fault of referees and build the team around Williams.
I can hope but know nothing will change.

My patience has run out totally with Matty Smith also. I like to consider myself as pretty patient and if anything at times on here I'm probably too happy to back the club or individuals and give them as much time as needed to turn things round. I'm done waiting for Matty Smith to come good though. He was awful for the whole of 2015 and has been even worse this year. He had excuses at the start of the season that he was out only pivot but that hasn't been the case recently and he's equally as poor.

We won't make the change but we should and that should start this Friday and he should be made available for transfer (a free one I presume as no club can be mad enough to pay for him). We've got two options for me. One is to bring Shorrocks in as a straight swap or the other is to shift Tomkins in to the halves with Sarginson going back to fullback (a position he's far better in then centre).

Lenagan won't sack Wane. But Im sure he'll replace him at the end of next year when his contract runs out if there are no trophies between now and then.

Obviously some would prefer him to be gone sooner (myself included) but I can't see it.

I'm not sure when his contract expires. Wasn't he on a roiling contract and the extensions dependent upon winning trophies? I seem to remember Lenagan stating that Wane had earned a two year extension after winning the double in 2013. I've always believed a coach has a shelf life of around 5 or 6 years unless there is a BIG turnover in playing staff.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"I'm not sure when his contract expires. Wasn't he on a roiling contract and the extensions dependent upon winning trophies? I seem to remember Lenagan stating that Wane had earned a two year extension after winning the double in 2013. I've always believed a coach has a shelf life of around 5 or 6 years unless there is a BIG turnover in playing staff.'" www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... l-day.html Quote Wigan have locked up the futures of head coach Shaun Wane and captain Sean O'Loughlin on three-year deals. News of the deals comes on the eve of Wigan's Super League Grand Final showdown against St Helens at Old Trafford on Saturday.'" Quote His new contract includes a clause which will see it roll on after the initial three-year period expires.'"

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"I'm not sure when his contract expires. Wasn't he on a roiling contract and the extensions dependent upon winning trophies? I seem to remember Lenagan stating that Wane had earned a two year extension after winning the double in 2013. I've always believed a coach has a shelf life of around 5 or 6 years unless there is a BIG turnover in playing staff.'" www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... l-day.html Quote Wigan have locked up the futures of head coach Shaun Wane and captain Sean O'Loughlin on three-year deals. News of the deals comes on the eve of Wigan's Super League Grand Final showdown against St Helens at Old Trafford on Saturday.'" Quote His new contract includes a clause which will see it roll on after the initial three-year period expires.'"

I was under the impression he had signed a 3 year contract prior to the 2014 Grand Final.