It was all a cunning plan

You know, years ago when we played Saints and when it was a 'rougher' game . We knew that at the very first scrum, within the first 10 minutes at least, a fight broke out in the scrum. If that happened,which it invariably did, the crowd knew they 'meant it' .

Our pack is 'powder puff' at the moment.

Just backs up my original post. Our forwards were disgusting. Id be ashamed of showing my face this week if i were them. Never have i seen a set of forwards get so dominated and look so helpless and beaten.

Clubb 11m? What the hell is all that about, why bother even turning up Tony?

Equally shocking is the Saints stats. It was mostly our forwards that allowed them to make those massive metres.

How’s Louie McArthy Scarsbrook making 134m? Imagine someone like Hock in his pomp playing, LMS would struggle to make 50m

Simply not moving off the defensive line. Stood watching them, not hitting with shoulders. Basic stuff

Tony Clubb making 11m from 2 drives all game is pathetic, he needs to stop using his energy trying to walk round like a pantomime villain trying to intimidate the kicker on the last and just get on with making metres and tackles.

He made more yards walking to the referee to talk to him. We’re stuck this year when it comes to winning the Grand Final with the lack we have. Partington and Byrne got chewed up, Flower and Clubb looked old and like they should be playing on a Saturday afternoon in the National Conference.

What really bothers me about Clubb is that when Flower and Lockers we’re out a couple of months back he really stepped up to the plate and put in some very good performances but as soon as he’s got more experience around him, it’s as though he thinks his work is done and he can go back to drifting through games looking to use his energy to be some sort of intimidator.

He probably deserves dropping on Friday but we’ve nobody to bring in really.

What do you mean by that?

Grasping at straws. He is implying we deliberately lost the game with minimum effort to try and bluff you in the final. We are not getting to the final Salford were unlucky previously against us. They will not make the same mistakes again and we have peaked 2-3 games too early.

Saints deserves to win the GF as does Salford. Salford on just pure heart alone. You lot because your well ahead of every team in SL by a mile. We win we prove that the format lets mediocrity rule as it did in 2016.

A team that once trotted the likes of Jordan James, the ghost of Tim Jonkers, Liam Botham, Scott Logan and David Allen out as forwards will definitely have had a worse performance.

Clubb is a waste of cap space at this point, and I feel for Smithies who was dropped to accommodate a Lockers who is frankly falling apart at this point.

Scraping the barrel if you have to go back to a forward pack of those players. The intent of my original post still stands, im sure somebody will be able to find an equally woeful forward display if they dig long and hard enough but that would just be nit picking on the wording of my post title.

A bit unfair, I suppose, to single out Flower and Clubb as no one came out of the game with any credit but I looked at their faces at one point and they looked done in. They were blowing out of their s. I’m not knocking them, as they’ve been great servants to the club, but the simple fact of the matter is that they’ve had their day.

In Walmsley and Thompson, Saints have two of the best, if not the best, front rowers in the competition. Not only are they younger than Flower and Clubb, they look physically fitter and certainly on Friday, they played with an intensity that our two couldn’t live with.

Thankfully, IL has addressed the situation for next season, or at least in part with Burgess being a huge upgrade on what we’ve currently got. In Joe Bullock, there is the potential there to be every bit as good as his St Helens counterparts. At 6’ 5” and 17st 7lb, he is a huge unit. He also has age on his side. We’ve just got to get that belief in him, with a level of fitness to match.

I doubt we have enough to go all the way again this season. They’ve done us physically and now (perhaps more importantly) mentally.

If the pies are serious about beating saints at OT, assuming they get there, then they need to adopt the Warrington way in playing second rows in the half’s instead of backs.
This will stifle their forwards and as we seen in the Challenge Cup Final at Wembley, once this happens they lose the plot and become mistake ridden.

Jordan James always gave his all, as did Jonkers and Botham.

Scott Logan was a half decent player IMO

French has to be tried at FB.
It's glaringly obvious how we aren't getting any second phase play going with a second receiver. Keep Zak on the pitch; I highly rate him, but we're stagnate and it has to change with immediate effect.

BFUT made 1 x carry and 7 of those metres in the first carry of the game from the kick off!
I didn't think thise stats could be any worse when I saw them, then I saw the first carry and realise they could!

I could make that yardage if the defensive line stood still!

He needs to be sat in the stands with me, the Club got mugged when they agreed a two year contract with Clubby. We are certainly better off with Navarette and Greenwood.

Next season if all fit our props should be Burgess Bullock Partington Bryne and Flower, Clubb and Navarette shouldn’t be playing next season because they are too slow make hardly any metres and are a liability quite frankly, I’ve been impressed with Bryne but he needs a bit more time imo

Not really. They are our senior front rowers and should be leading the charge especially in these big games, not blowing out of their s trying to get back behind the ball after 5 minutes.

If you think Burgess is going to fix the problem next year youve another thing coming. Hes a shadow of the player he was, thats why hes coming back to the UK. I know weve got Mitch Clark too but im not sure he is anything more than a project like Bullock.

I concur. Havard will probably be a direct replacement for Flower buts it’s important he isn’t rushed. Saints took time and patience with Thompson and it has paid off massively.

TBH I’m a bit confused with the Clark signing. He doesn’t look like much, even at Leigh. I get the feeling it’s a waste of cap space.

Just hope Havard is still here after Lenagans comments about Melbourne sniffing round an 18 year old academy player and people saying it’s him.

I’m not ready to write off Flower and Clubb yet. They’ve both been good players for the club and in Clubbs case he proved as recently as a couple of months back that he can still produce good performances. In Flowers case he’s coming back from injury and doesn’t look quite ready for these high intensity games but Friday night will have done him a power of good. Ultimately the competition for places next hear will mean if lads don’t perform they won’t get in and that needs to stand for guys like Flower and Clubb also. We’ll have them two, Burgess, Bullock, Clark, Partington, Navarette, Byrne, Havard and Wells to choose from and Lam needs to ensure he uses that depth to drive standards.

Clubb needs dropping for our next game, I’d rather have Navarratte or Bullock in.

Miss Lumley is 73 now, but if it floats your boat, why not.