Wire fans will see us has a big game because they have never had a real derby since widnes went down

Wire to us will always be the second game behind saints the banter will be worse cause lets face it wire fans wish they could have what all us lot have had over the years

Brains aren't everything. In fact, in your case they're nothing!

Yed come on talking rugby here no need to stoop low unless you dont have anything to say about my comments?

Do you wish you had what us wigan fans have?

Another question for you (i dont know the answer) how many players in your squad have come through the wire ranks?

Depending on who loses this Friday (and scoreline) Saints could be:
a) above Wigan, or
b) a mammoth 1 point behind Wire.

I wouldn't write us off as no-hopers in the league table just yet.

I appreciate that we could lose to Bradford and fall further behind too, by the way

I'd suggest that most RL speccies consider the CC the second objective, clearly behind winning the grand final. Warrington, whilst taking the cup, have dissapointed at the play off stage, finishing officially 6th in the order last year?

Do i wish we'd had your money in the 80's ? yes

Ben Harrison, Riley, Cooper, Evans, Mitchell, Blythe, McCarthy, Williams
that have currently played first team BUT i take umbrage with the whole pro clubs 'making' kids thing

I played at Parkside, players like Danny Tickle, Mike Bennett, John Stankovich, Chris Perceival (RIP) came from here and were coached by the coaches here, NOT Wigan or Saints or Widnes.
They just turn up one day get them to sign a contract and say 'hey look what we have produced'. No credit ever seems to go to the amateur clubs for producing these kids.

I disagree with you on the amateur part here we have st pats,st judes,st cuthberts and rose bridge these clubs cant offer up and coming players what a pro team can

I know for a fact someone from wigan is coaching a st pats team bringing players through there so you can look at it 2 ways, kids these days are getting signed at like 10-11 years old it was totally diffrent 10 years ago

Most kids start off at 8 and the good ones are signed minimum 5 years later how can i pro club take credit for that ?

Most players it's natural talent

Ok they start at 8 play untill they are 13 and then a club sign them, what about all the training they offer them? the wages? the schooling?

So you want an amateur club to take credit for the kid training once twice a week and playing on a sunday over a team taking them on for 5 years training them everyday for 5-6 years?

Kids learn basic rugby when they start out playing if they get signed by a pro club they get alot faster,stronger and learn a hell of a lot more about the game then what they would without them

Do you think Saints will finish above Wigan and/or Wire at the end of the season?

Yes i don't doubt that clubs help develop players, that is obvious, but if it's natural talent then the club can't take credit for that, they can't take credit for 'finding' a stand out player in a local amateur club.
I could go to any under 13's club a point at a player and go, 'he's the best player in the side'

Would Andy Farrell been any less of a player if he'd gone to play for Salford/Warrington/Widnes/Leigh academy ?

As a teenager I'd say no, therefore the pro clubs can't take credit for it.
Yes a club can take a player up a few levels but that comes with time.

We were meant to bow down to the almighty Wire last year (and Hull, Huddersfield, Hull KR etc etc after getting bashed by Hull), didn't quite pan out like that though, did it?

Saints haven't been out of the top2 for a fair old time and it's too early to start writing obituaries yet.

I don't think anyone can safely say how saints will fare as a whole. They finally showed some potential last saturday, but the rest of the season, bar a good win at Salford has been very dissapointing.

Perhaps getting past Easmondgate will help get us back on track, perhaps not. Maybe Royce will be the coach we all want, maybe not....

Ask me again after the Bradford game this week, then again in a month and see how the feeling is then.

Forget the politicians answer.
Do you think Saints will finish above Wigan and/or Wire at the end of the season?

It was a simple question.

It isn't a simple question, because there are a lot of variables over the course of a season, which we are only 6 games into.

Wire could lose Briers and Monaghan in the way we have lost Eastmond and Pryce, and things would change dramatically.

There is no reason why Wire may not lose on Friday, then Saints pick up one more point than them for the rest of the year.

It's perfectly plausible that we'll finish above Wire, as it is that we'll finish below. It's perfectly plausible that Wire will finish above Wigan, as it is that they'll finish below.

Only a few posts ago you were banging on about how it's too early to sensibly draw league table conclusions, before now going on to suggest it is simple to draw league table conclusions at this point in time. Make your mind up.

They can take credit that they got the player/parents sig on the dotted line before another club snaps them up

Farrell i think he wouldn't be the player he become if he sign for any of them but it's an impossible question to answer, when farrell came through he had the best coach in the world (at the time) the best players to learn from and the training would have been the best but we will never know

If you had games amateur v pro from 13 years old through to open age the result would be the same at ever age (even if you took all the best players who had not been signed at each level the results would be the same)

I believe so, yes. A good player at age 13 very often doesn't go on to fulfil his potential; likewise a player that didn't really impress at that age can go on to be something special. I watch our lads at all age groups from U15's upwards, and the progress they made under Wane, and now make under Fletcher, is amazing.
Coaching makes all the difference at that age.

Despite making very valid points about the various permutations, you still haven't said what you think will happen at the end of the year!

I think it is too early to write off Saints as a top 2 side. That's what I think which, weirdly enough, is why I said it.

Fans of other teams have gleefully written off Saints early doors in a few recent seasons - each time we've gone on to finish in the top2 and make the GF.

I think it's far sillier to decide Saints are completely out of it than it is to state that it's early doors and a lot can still happen.

I'm not going to say Saints will finish above Wire any more than I would Wire will finish above Wigan - because I don't know how it will play out and nor does anybody else.

That much I agree with.

I felt all week Saints would go and win at Leeds even without Pryce + Eastmond, and teams like that who can pull results out of the hat are always going to be a credible threat.

Very mature response. How about questioning my post? or providing a decent rationale as to why you think it's funny? Or is acting like a kid more important to you and having a stab at Warrington. It's folk like you that cause the anomosity on here between the two set's of fans.

How can you say you have been the best team over the last 2 seasons?

All you have done (not taking anything away from you btw) is won a knockout comp twice anything can happen in a one off game and draws make a big diffrence but to say you have been the best team is bonkers

Wigan,saints and leeds have been better over the last 2 seasons

I never said "we've been the best team". Also the playoffs is just a knockout comp(which we manage to mess up), anything can happen in a one off game. There is a reason not many teams win both. Semi....final...playoffs. All happen within a month of each other. I think it's hard to lift that often in such a short space of time. Wigan will see what it's like if you eventually make it to Wembley. It's hard to do.

So much wrong with that post it's hard to know where to start

Playoffs you earn a right all season to have a second shot which we did and you but you chucked that chance away

I know, which leads to my point of it being difficult to win both. Which other points do you think were wrong? I notice you missed the part where i didn't say "we're the best team". I know we haven't been the best team.