That’s true but in fairness to Cooper, he’s been knocking those sorts of figures out for years. His pace off the mark and footwork are extremely impressive. I’ve stuck up for Singleton but he’s the polar opposite in terms of speed off the mark and it’s why Saints find him extremely easy to deal with.

Singleton is rubbish, Cooper is decent.

He’s a big signing for Wigan is Cooper. A big step up on some of the options.

ouch......true though

Yeah, he gives us a bit more of what we need. We already have the outside backs....

Cooper and Havard are our metre eaters. Smithies is the best 13 in the comp.

I agree,Knowles is over rated and is second to Smithies (who has come on great this year).

Had to log in from holiday to reply to this.

Let’s see who Mr Wigan himself Shaun Wane selects for England. I can guarantee he picks Knowles over him. That should really tell you everything.

Surely Victor Radley plays 13, hes comfortably better than Knowles and Smithies

I agree but the point I was making was about Knowles over Smithies. Whether Radley plays in front of Knowles or not, Wane will definitely select Knowles over Smithies. 100%

Hope I didnt spoil your holiday,(knew i would get a reaction).
Enjoy your holiday.
He would pick knowles but Radley would be the first choice.

I think he might put Knowles at prop. He’s done it before in the 2021 All Stars game and with Radley now in the mix, it’ll give him a way of getting both in.

I started this Knowles v Smithies debate. My take on it is that Knowles is class and he’s still above Smithies but I tell you what, he’s come on at an absolute rate of knots Smithies this season and the gap is not that big. He has always been rated as a future star Smithies and after a couple of quiet seasons under Lam, the steps he’s taken forward this season have been huge. Whilst I still think Knowles is the better player, I certainly think Smithies has had the better season. Give me the choice for England though and I’d still go Knowles, much in the same way that I’d go Tomkins over any of Welsby, Lomax or Williams because he’s proven his class over and over again and will step up when needed.

I agree that Smithies has come on loads and to be fair to him he is a couple of years younger than Knowles. The gap between them is now as close as we are to catching you after your CC win



On a separate note though just because Tomkins has the experience doesn’t mean Welsby won’t perform as well. He’s got an X factor about him that few have and you made a great point about him being cocky. That makes him fearless and a “why should we fear the opposition” type of attitude. You made the same point with Newman and I agree.

Interestingly enough Kev Brown actually said this week that he rates Welsby as the best player in the comp and better than Jai Field…

That’s a whole other debate so I thought I’d chuck that grenade in before I go. It’s happy hour in half an hour and I’m about to go back in the pool so I’m done with this today. Speak soon

If Kev Brown said it we may as well not start the debate



To basically sum up a couple of Saints fans viewpoints on this-

Welsby has been better in the league than Tomkins this season, so Welsby plays.

Smithies has been better than Knowles in the league this season, so Knowles plays.

I think I’ve covered it, now enjoy the beer and the sun

Dont forget no wigan player would get in the Saints team maybe Farrell on the bench.

Welsby fullback, Tomkins & Lomax in the halves (Williams as back up)…absolute no brainer for me.

Agree with someone else’s suggestion of Knowles for one of the 4 prop spots. The back row at international level doesn’t suit what Knowles does (as good at it as he is)…personally I see it as low error high stats type players that will go best. Faz & Whitehead, and Radley. Bateman & McMeeken will do well to get in before those three.

I think Marshy should be given a chance he is having a great season.
Whitehead 100% should be picked.

Not seen anything of Whitehead this season, is he still playing well? There is some good competition in there with him, Bateman, Faz, Batchelor and McMeekan.

4 years younger actually.

Whitehead is the captain of Raiders,just come back against Warriors (Knee infection) but yes he is playing well.
For me- Bateman,Faz or Whitehead then Batchelor maybe Mcmeekan.

He’s always been very good for England has Whitehead, so I’d expect him to make the 17. One thing I can’t see Wane doing is to pick his side based on getting every possible NRL player in and then fill in the gaps, as Wayne Bennett seemed to do. That gives somebody like Faz or Batchelor a decent shout and the same with players like Oledzki or Lees, who I could see him having ahead of Tom Burgess (not sure Burgess is mobile enough for Wane).

Oledzki is a good shout tough as teak.
I wouldnt, like you say just pick the NRL players I would hope he picks the best players as he sees fit.
Some fans I am sure will be upset at his inclusions but he is the coach.

Batchelor will have to improve his defence for Wane to pick him, he has missed more tackles than any other player in SL.

And as good if not better this season-so far

I noticed that but I wouldn’t be hugely worried. I again go back to how they defend. It’s all about pressure and people getting off the line and it leads to plenty of missed tackles across the board but if the first man doesn’t get you, the second does. The Saints side has the best defence in the league by a mile, with them conceding nearly 100 points less than the next best and nearly 170 points less than us. Guys like Knowles and Batchelor play a massive part in that regardless of what the missed tackles column says.

Missed tackles against international sides would cost games.
We need players that do not miss that many tackles.
How Wane will view this is any bodies guess,but I for one trust him at least get the players focused and chomping at the bit so to speak.