Considering the squad? You talk like you had no team. You had Green, Farrell, McIlorum, Pettybourne who would defo be in the 17. The rest are squad players.

We had Amor, Laffranchi and Lomax out who would make the 17 and then depending which fan you ask, Jones and Beaumont too.

Good Friday was a close contest until the Farrell try which even you must admit was lucky. I'd hardly say we were shown up, but you were the much better side over 80 mins.

Let the grown ups have a conversation and you go back to your cartoons son.

Oh the irony.

The grief you give Rogues and the other Wigan posters on Red Vee for posting in their own special topic, just because it's on a Saints site.

Think your relationship with Wigan is akin to Plankton's relationship with Mr Krabs.

Don't be so sensitive. It is not a case of needing to do anything. I also didn't see anything in Saints performance that made me feel that at this stage they are a real threat for winning the GF. They will probably reach the semis but no further in my opinion. That is my honest assessment and has nothing to do with it being Saints.

You can add Goulding to that, and Clubb. Hampshire would also be in the 17 instead of Doran, who made his first team debut.

Your past record of reaching GF's and losing with a different team has no bearing on this year. If Saints get there they will have to beat some very good teams on the way. I am sure that Leeds, Huddersfield, Warrington and Castleford will have a big say in the play offs although the Cup may alter that a bit depending on who gets there. I think Cas will win the cup this year and that view is not because they beat us but because of the way they played against us. They are a good team, well coached and showed that they have real desire. That is a good mix for the cup.

True, the depleted and heroic Wigan team did well to get close to a full strength Saints team who kept all their important players on the pitch for the full 80 and had a big penalty count in their favour.

Wigan have oodles of improvement in them, whereas Saints have nowhere to go with no players to come back in - and surely Brown's voluntary tactic of taking off his scrum half early and replacing him with a back rower will cost us one day.

Goulding, Gelling and Thornley all make your 17? Would Clubb and Pettybourne both be in there as well as Taylor, Flower, Crosby?

My strongest team would be:

Bowen
Charnley
Gelling
Thornley
Burgess
Green
Smith
Taylor
Mcilorum
Flower
Joel tomkins
Farrell
O'Loughlin

Crosby
Clubb
Bateman
Powell

Before we signed Joel I'd have had Pettybourne on the bench with Bateman starting. I may be slightly biased because I don't think Dudson, James or Hughes should be anywhere near our 17 but they make Wane's squad more often than not. Bit of a toss of a coin between Goulding and Gelling also, 12 months ago it would have been a no-brainer but Goulding has been pretty poor in 2014.

Cheers.

Based on that you had 6 missing then. And we had 4 I reckon who made make the 17 most weeks. Hardly as drastic as some would make out.

I agree on Hughes, I don't know how he keeps getting in your side. Connor Farrell will overtake him before long I reckon.

I'd have Sarginson over Thornley and Pettybourne over Crosby.

It was 7 minimum. Goulding is so far ahead of either centre who played last week it's a joke to say otherwise. The fact he is off to HKR and we are apparently happy about the situation is just sad.

But he isn't "so far ahead" is he? He may be in your eyes, but to the coaching staff at Wigan and 99% of fans he isn't.

How can something be a joke when it's reality? Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it "sad" or a joke.

I think you're overstating the case there somewhat. I would have Goulding in ahead of Sarginson at centre atm and so would everyone who comes to the games with me. Many don't even see Sarge as a centre at all and prefer him to play fullback or wing. You're way off with you're ''99%'' quote as you could quite easily see just by reading this very forum. As for the coaching staff, they've played Goulding whenever fit (and sometimes when he has been far from fit!) and it was his choice, not the coaching staff's, to leave. In fact Wane rates him and always has done. I think you're confusing what is likely to happen in the future, once Thornley has recovered and should Gelling continue to develop, with the here and now. At this moment in time, or at least prior to his announcing his plans to leave, Goulding would play if fit. Therefore you would have to conclude that he would have been in the team had he been fit.

Wane has said he couldn't guarantee Goulding a place next year and that's the main reason he is leaving.

If Goulding was "so far ahead" of the other centres then he would be guaranteed a start. The truth is that he isn't that far ahead and therefore not guaranteed anything.

He may well have been in the team, who knows? But the issue I had was with the "so far ahead" comment which is simply untrue.

Hardly anyone is guaranteed a place under Wane, that's one thing that sets him apart from other coaches we've had in the past.

Personally I've have him as easily first choice right centre when fit, with Thornley and Gelling fighting it out for left centre. Sarge's best position is fullback, but his versatility makes him a useful backup for all the back positions.

Fair enough. I don't disagree with any of that, it's all down to personal opinion. Like I said earlier, it was the claim that it was "a joke" and that Goulding is "so far ahead" of the rest that was a bit OTT.

Possibly. But as I was pointing out; no more OTT than your "99% of Wigan Fans" quote. On balance he was/is first choice centre when fit and only his announcement that he intended to leave changed that. Interestingly I've read on here he was offered a contract with Wigan next season and would have been starting centre. Who knows if that's true but the quote about Wane not being able to guarantee his starting spot has only surfaced after he announced his departure and certainly does not coincide with what we have seen this season so far. When fit he was first choice and that's a simple statement of fact.

Touché.



I was told by someone who works at Wigan that he was offered a deal but he asked Wane for some assurances re. next year and Wane was honest and said he couldn't guarantee anything. Last week I heard a WISH FM interview with Wane and he said he couldn't offer him the same guarantees as Hull KR.

Maybe you're right and that has only been mentioned because he is leaving. But if that's the case and he had a new deal AND a guaranteed starting spot next year, why would he leave? I've met Darrell quite a number of times and know his family and he doesn't strike me as the type to go money-grabbing.

It just doesn't add up for me that he is supposedly so highly thought of by Wane and yet he has chosen to leave.

I understand where you're coming from and it seems as plausible as any other explanation to be fair. I think it worth pointing out that 'guarantee' is a strong word in Wane's world (see what I did then! Haha) and I'm 100% confident that he wouldn't have been 'guaranteed' a starting spot. That's just not Wane's way and it's also not what I said. If that's what he was looking for then maybe that was his reason for leaving. I also know that Darrell has never been a money first player but, at 26, you have to think it would come into the reckoning. He has maybe 2 contracts left to secure his future and it's been said elsewhere that he wasn't offered a favourable contract this time around at Wigan. Wane definitely does rate him, however. The fact that he has been first choice centre throughout his tenure tells you that. If it was just speculation then I would agree with you having doubts. However it's really a simple statement of fact based on what's actually happened and, his announcement not withstanding, what has continued to happen this season.

I can't argue with any of that mate.

Isn't it nice to have a civilised discussion...if only there were more on here!

Haha.

Jut as an addendum I think this quote from SW sums it up perfectly;

"He understood where he was in the pecking order. If Darrell's playing out of his skin, he's always going to be picked, but it's very tough to be at the top of your game all of the time."

First choice but no guarantees...

Yeah that's fair enough. Without being disrespectful to Hull KR, Goulding wouldn't have to be at his best every week to nail down a regular starting spot.

And yes, it's great to have a civil conversation with folk on here. If only I wasn't so harshly prejudged by many.

Which is exactly as it should be and I cant imagine Wane operating any other way. I think the only player in Wane's eyes who would be undroppable if fit is O'Loughlin.

And McIlorum.

They're his two leaders and cornerstones of the team.