I’m watching a different sport if Marshall hasn’t out performed Burgess consistently over these past couple of seasons. He’s beat him for workrate, energy, carries from his own end, threat with the ball and so on. All subjective I guess unless it can be backed with cold hard facts but the fact Marshall has been selected in front of him whenever both have been available speaks volumes. This club is built on a culture of leaving nothing out on the field. I feel Burgess has fallen below that at times but I never feel Marshall does.

Most naturally talented-Burgess

Better player-Marshall

IMO

It's a hard one to quantify and articulate, especially without turning it into a Marshall bashing post (something I don't want to do).

A lot of people say that Marshall was the inform winger prior to his injury & I'd probably say that's fair. I'd also say that Burgess, over the last 10 weeks or so, has been at the same level Marshall was. Why aren't we saying Burgess was the inform winger in the comp? Who was better than him?

Likewise there's posts about no desire, yet he played the GF with a broken jaw (a fact that's hardly been mentioned).

Burgess might not "puff out" his cheeks when he runs it in, that doesn't make him any less ineffective imo. He might not chip it over and go 50 metres, but more often than not he'll have kept his opposite man quiet all night.

It can't just be me that sees the hoops Burgess has to jump through.

Quite simple why he consistently gets a rough ride...narrow minded fans who once he’d been to the NRL and been a “failure” thought we should’ve never had him back. Saw the same with Sam, even though once fit he was comfortably the most influential player in the team, if not league, and continues to be the same for Catalans. I’m sure we’ll see the same again next season if Bateman isn’t doing 200m plus a game and 60 tackles.

Burgess would’ve run through brick walls these last couple of months but if he’d do that now, then why not before? If he has so much more to give, as he’s shown in these last couple of months, why didn’t he show it earlier? He’s a brilliant player, unbelievably talented but I can’t help but feel the last two months of his Wigan career has proven that he’s not quite thrown everything in to it in these last couple of seasons (in the main). I think there were some confidence issues as well but there’s been times when he’s looked like he’s going through the motions.

Marshall IMO was the leagues best winger pre lockdown. I agree it’s not about bigging one up and bagging the other, that happened too often with Marshall and Davies as well but Marshall produced displays in that spell Burgess simply hasn’t in these past few seasons. I hear talk of his defence but aside from a bad 5 mins against Wakey in the first game post lockdown, he’s been solid and he’s fine under the high and low ball nowadays.

I wish we could’ve kept Burgess by the way but I can see why he was allowed to look elsewhere a few months back.

I'm not for a second saying that Burgess couldn't have been better, because he obviously had more in him. I guess it's slightly off topic, or away from my OP, but it's almost criminal the lengths some players have to go to get recognised.

The comparison a couple of posts ago about Sam is a good one actually. It's all hypothetical, but if Sam was playing for us last week we'd have won imo. In Sam's last game for us he sets Manfredi up with a peach of a pass. Roll the clock back to last week and a couple of times French was in the same spot, but the pass doesn't quite hit the man. Those are the small differences and (not you btw), but some of our fans only see the flashy stuff and don't reward small details that are just as important. Or worse still block it out because of the player that did it (Burgess's jaw or Sam's passing).

Another example is Faz Vs Isa. Now this isn't a pop at Isa, but I've seen loads of people on social media fawning over him with sfuff like "I love Isa", "Isa is my favourite player", "Watch Isa set the tone" and I can't help but think some of it is 'puffing your cheeks out' type posturing. Yeah Isa has been great, but Faz does all of that + more. Faz should be regarded as a legend, but because he's not involved in the rough and tumble, or flying in from a kick he doesn't get that praise.

I guess what I'm trying to say is - for some of our fans if you aren't scoring a wow of a try, running into a tackle at 100 miles an hour or offering your unwavering long term loyalty to the badge then you aren't recognised as well as others.

I agree with the vast majority of that. I think ultimately I just think Burgess has let himself down a little bit in this second spell. I get frustrated because I rate him so highly. This sounds terribly disrespectful to Salford but he shouldn’t be signing for a club like that. He is coming in to what should be the prime of his career and I think he has the talent to be a top level winger at a club winning trophies, an international winger and if he got his head down, an NRL winger again and a very good one at that. This isn’t a Matty Russell, Lewis Tierney or even Tom Davies we’re talking about. He’s in a different league from an ability point of view.

Commenting that fans don't reward the small details, and then criticising Willie Isa.........

You're obviously fishing for a bite, but show me the criticism in that post? I think I even said he's been great at one point?

Well I know from previous posts you don't like him and it's an obvious reference to that.

Isa is almost the definition of "does the small things" as is Sam Powell, who to agree with your statement is only starting to get recognition for that because he's added a few tries to his armoury. He doesn't do 50 runs from dummy half like Daryl Clark though.

Slightly OTT there, I just think he's a decent squad player and we've argued that before. I don't not like the guy & have even suggested that the club should keep him around when he hangs up his boots

I will say that Isa does occasionally go for the big hit. Think back to KO last week, he steams in and misses his shot. I'm not criticising him for that btw, it's obvious what he's trying to do with that play - it's just some fans will rate that miss higher than the actual action of making the tackle.

Enter Tony Clubb

Couldn’t disagree more.

Burgess improve last 8 weeks when he knew it was his last weeks at Wigan but has been a massive disappointment since his injury in 2018. He’ll have come back on big money probably aswell.

Marshall was absolutely outstanding this year. So underrated, all the skill in the world, once to burn and his carries coming out of yardage (despite being a lot smaller than some) were really effected and often got quick play the balls and penalties.


Right decision to move on from Burgess and probs a good move for him to get out of his comfort zone.

Faz v Isa - is that a thing? From what I've seen on here Faz rightly gets universal praise, plus of course he was nominated for MOS. Isa used to be seen as Mr Average but this year he has gone up in people's estimations. I don't think I've ever seen anyone put him on a par with Farrell though.

There is a place for flying in trying to smash people IMO. Even when they go in too hard to complete the tackle, players will often hit the attacker hard and stop their momentum so they can be easily taken to ground by others. McIlorum used to do that for us loads to good effect, but I bet the stats say he missed lots of tackles. People with better strategic knowledge than me may confirm whether it's a deliberate strategy or not but I've definitely noticed it being effective as long as the guy flying in does it when the ball carrier is unlikely to pass, and makes sure he gets back into the defensive line in time for the next tackle.

Burgess seemed to have it all but sadly he just lacks that spark he had when he first entered the side maybe the move will do him good.

I've always thought Joe Burgess was a confidence player, drops the ball in the first five minutes and it would affect his performance for the rest of the game. Score a try in the first five minutes of a game and would probably go on and get a hat-trick.

Like chalk and cheese.

I think it was last year he had about 5-6 poor (for him) games on the trot. Absolutely battered his confidence and got worse as each game went along. I kept saying to others that he just needed an early try in a match which he eventually got, instantly picked up. Everything was different about him until he had a dry spell and went back into his shell again.

Will probably have a blinder against us next year (they normally do).

Joe Burgess proved on his return to the team that he is back to something like his best form and it has been a wise decision by Watson to get the Salford owners to give him a contract.

The way he has played for Wigan recently must have made IL/KR regret not offering him a contract, especially with the present wing position at the club. Marshall out with a long term injury, Manfredi injury prone and not playing anything like he was prior to his first two injuries and now Burgess departed.

I only hope that the club have plans to sign a couple of good wingers as a priority!

We do not need 2 new wingers.

That would be a terrible use of the cap.

The priority must be a Prop, then if we have room a winger. If not we have plenty of combinations in the backs which mean we can run with the backs we have and still be ok.

Manfredi should be fit for the start of next season which means running with Bibby or Field on the wing until Marshall returns.
Although Field is a half or full back to get him out there each week may mean playing wing for part of the game. The last 20 mins he could move into the middle to use his pace against tiring forwards and half backs.

We are not short of players and how :Lam uses them will be key.

Are we OK for wingers though? I thought we were because I thought we may go with Field there. If you are right and he can't play wing then I think we are only an injury away from having problems. I'm not saying Hanley and Halsall won't make it, but I think they need time on loan/DR in the Championship before they play Super League again. Would not like either to be one injury away from playing every week, especially with Manfredi's record.

he should have been most seasons, his games for his age are terrible and although on his day he is class, should be released

could play Field FB and French wing

We could, but I hate the idea of our best attacking threat having less influence over the game.

Spot on. Prop first anything else later

A good prop and a project type wing/utility back would be ideal. It does feel like they’re trying to jig the balance of the squad around with the players rumoured to have been told they can look elsewhere. Once the 12th Superleague club is announced, that should lead to activity around the league.

I think Field will be better than French at FB which is scary, quicker and better hands