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| Quote ="post"Pushing on open doors, last time I checked it had been legal for donkeys years, even to the point they that being LGBTQ is a protected characteristic so what are they marching for?. They have a pride month, pride march, Manchester pride, Wigan pride and now it’s getting thrown in our faces who just want to go and watch a game of rugby.
A game of rugby which everyone is welcome to attend, whereby the only labels given to people are home or away fans, the only vitriol spewed is because you’ the opposition and not because of sex, colour, sexual orientation etc.
Call me a bigot, call me homophobic I couldn’t give a toss, I know I’m not. All this is is a cheap publicity stunt by the club and brings identity politics which is extremely divisive into the club. This for me would be exactly the same as the club organising a ‘Celebrate Leaving the EU Day’ against Warrington, I’d feel the same way about that too as not everyone voted leave, it’s not everyone cup of tea and like I said before, politics and religion are best kept out of sport. Rant over.'"
You say you are not homophobic and it's likely that you are not directly however I believe your apathy contributes to a lack of acceptance. I can't understand the thought process of not being homophobic but also being annoyed at pride events. Those two things don't really add up, especially since it has absolutely no impact on your life.
Legality and acceptance are not the same as I'm sure youre smart enough to know. LGBT people still suffer homophobia on a regular basis. That is fact.
Your example is poor and once again, an example of a CHOICE. Of course having a celebrate leaving the EU day would be weird because that's based on a choice people made. I'll say it louder for those in the back, sexuality is not a choice. |
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| Quote ="Angelus"No they dont.
To quote google "Similar-sounding words: persecuted is sometimes confused with prosecuted"'"
I'm afraid they do. |
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| Quote ="MattyB"Only violent drunks. Or drunks that drive. Or drunks that run down streets naked.
If you're a happy drunk minding your own business chances are you will be alright.'"
So you are not saying it never happens? By the way I am happy for those who are involved in the examples you give to be arrested. |
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Quote ="post"Pushing on open doors, last time I checked being gay has been legal for donkeys years, even to the point they that being LGBTQ is a protected characteristic with special laws in place to protect them so what are they marching for? Who’s persecuting them? They have a pride month, pride march, Manchester pride, Wigan pride and now it’s getting thrown in our faces who just want to go and watch a game of rugby.
A game of rugby which everyone is welcome to attend, whereby the only labels given to people are home or away fans, the only vitriol spewed is because you’ the opposition and not because of sex, colour, sexual orientation etc.
Call me a bigot, call me homophobic I couldn’t give a toss, I know I’m not. All this is is a cheap publicity stunt by the club and brings identity politics which is extremely divisive into the club. This for me would be exactly the same as the club organising a ‘Celebrate Leaving the EU Day’ against Warrington, I’d feel the same way about that too as not everyone voted leave, it’s not everyones cup of tea and like I said before, politics and religion are best kept out of sport.'"
Who is persecuting them? Just a few examples that have made headlines last year. When was the last time you and the missus walked down the street and were subjected thought of a beating (for no reason)? I've never really had to think about that thankfully.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-engla ... n-49119947
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-4 ... -being-gay
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social- ... -1.4053100
It's more common than you think. Having worked in Manchester over the last few years a number of gay colleagues were discussing abuse one day at work and every single one of them had suffered verbal and/or physical abuse for no reason when going about their daily lives.
A female colleague of my missus was physically attacked and raped in a Manchester City Centre pub toilet just before Christmas by a regular customer (bloke) who knew she was gay and had been giving her grief earlier in the evening. |
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Quote ="post"Pushing on open doors, last time I checked being gay has been legal for donkeys years, even to the point they that being LGBTQ is a protected characteristic with special laws in place to protect them so what are they marching for? Who’s persecuting them? They have a pride month, pride march, Manchester pride, Wigan pride and now it’s getting thrown in our faces who just want to go and watch a game of rugby.
A game of rugby which everyone is welcome to attend, whereby the only labels given to people are home or away fans, the only vitriol spewed is because you’ the opposition and not because of sex, colour, sexual orientation etc.
Call me a bigot, call me homophobic I couldn’t give a toss, I know I’m not. All this is is a cheap publicity stunt by the club and brings identity politics which is extremely divisive into the club. This for me would be exactly the same as the club organising a ‘Celebrate Leaving the EU Day’ against Warrington, I’d feel the same way about that too as not everyone voted leave, it’s not everyones cup of tea and like I said before, politics and religion are best kept out of sport.'"
Who is persecuting them? Just a few examples that have made headlines last year. When was the last time you and the missus walked down the street and were subjected thought of a beating (for no reason)? I've never really had to think about that thankfully.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-engla ... n-49119947
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-4 ... -being-gay
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social- ... -1.4053100
It's more common than you think. Having worked in Manchester over the last few years a number of gay colleagues were discussing abuse one day at work and every single one of them had suffered verbal and/or physical abuse for no reason when going about their daily lives.
A female colleague of my missus was physically attacked and raped in a Manchester City Centre pub toilet just before Christmas by a regular customer (bloke) who knew she was gay and had been giving her grief earlier in the evening. | |
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| Quote ="Sweaty Betty's"So you are not saying it never happens? By the way I am happy for those who are involved in the examples you give to be arrested.'"
That's why I said 'chances are'. You're the one who made a statement that 'the police do', maybe you should provide some examples of police persecution against drunks?
All I know is if I'm walking home from the rugby tomorrow night (bevvied up or not) *chances are it will be incident free like it has been over the last twenty odd years I've been walking that route.
*Theres always the chance of bumping into a disgruntled Wire fan after we have put thirty on them tomorrow. (we love in hope). |
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Quote ="MattyB"Who is persecuting them? Just a few examples that have made headlines last year. When was the last time you and the missus walked down the street and were subjected thought of a beating (for no reason)? I've never really had to think about that thankfully.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-engla ... n-49119947
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-4 ... -being-gay
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social- ... -1.4053100
It's more common than you think. Having worked in Manchester over the last few years a number of gay colleagues were discussing abuse one day at work and every single one of them had suffered verbal and/or physical abuse for no reason when going about their daily lives.
A female colleague of my missus was physically attacked and raped in a Manchester City Centre pub toilet just before Christmas by a regular customer (bloke) who knew she was gay and had been giving her grief earlier in the evening.'"
Spot on. If you have no friends or work colleagues to talk to and learn more about how common this crap goes on, then just watching the news or better still do a google search about the subject. Fact's are attacks on LGBT people surged almost 80% in the UK over the last four years, that was up to end 2017.
Makes it even more concerning when you read that four in five LGBT people (81 per cent) who experienced a hate crime or incident didn't even report it to the police.
[urlhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gay-lgbt-hate-crimes-stats-rise-four-year-physical-verbal-homophobic-abuse-community-a7933126.html[/url
[urlhttps://www.stonewall.org.uk/lgbt-britain-hate-crime-and-discrimination[/url |
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Quote ="MattyB"Who is persecuting them? Just a few examples that have made headlines last year. When was the last time you and the missus walked down the street and were subjected thought of a beating (for no reason)? I've never really had to think about that thankfully.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-engla ... n-49119947
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-4 ... -being-gay
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social- ... -1.4053100
It's more common than you think. Having worked in Manchester over the last few years a number of gay colleagues were discussing abuse one day at work and every single one of them had suffered verbal and/or physical abuse for no reason when going about their daily lives.
A female colleague of my missus was physically attacked and raped in a Manchester City Centre pub toilet just before Christmas by a regular customer (bloke) who knew she was gay and had been giving her grief earlier in the evening.'"
Spot on. If you have no friends or work colleagues to talk to and learn more about how common this crap goes on, then just watching the news or better still do a google search about the subject. Fact's are attacks on LGBT people surged almost 80% in the UK over the last four years, that was up to end 2017.
Makes it even more concerning when you read that four in five LGBT people (81 per cent) who experienced a hate crime or incident didn't even report it to the police.
[urlhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gay-lgbt-hate-crimes-stats-rise-four-year-physical-verbal-homophobic-abuse-community-a7933126.html[/url
[urlhttps://www.stonewall.org.uk/lgbt-britain-hate-crime-and-discrimination[/url | |
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| Quote ="MattyB"That's why I said 'chances are'. You're the one who made a statement that 'the police do', maybe you should provide some examples of police persecution against drunks?
All I know is if I'm walking home from the rugby tomorrow night (bevvied up or not) *chances are it will be incident free like it has been over the last twenty odd years I've been walking that route.
*Theres always the chance of bumping into a disgruntled Wire fan after we have put thirty on them tomorrow. (we love in hope).'"
I said the police persecute drunks, I didn't provide a number but if it happens to one person then the fact holds. You responded by stating that they persecute 'violent drunks. Or drunks that drive. Or drunks that run down streets naked' and then contradicted that statement by saying 'if you're a happy drunk minding your own business chances are you will be alright'. That leads me to believe that you agree that a drunken person can be persecuted even if they are a happy drunk?
By the way, I do hope that we put 30 on the Wire tomorrow but I don't believe we will. A one point win would be good enough. |
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| Quote ="secondstanza"You say you are not homophobic and it's likely that you are not directly however I believe your apathy contributes to a lack of acceptance. I can't understand the thought process of not being homophobic but also being annoyed at pride events. Those two things don't really add up, especially since it has absolutely no impact on your life.
Legality and acceptance are not the same as I'm sure youre smart enough to know. LGBT people still suffer homophobia on a regular basis. That is fact.
Your example is mickey poor and once again, an example of a CHOICE. Of course having a celebrate leaving the EU day would be weird because that's based on a choice people made. I'll say it louder for those in the back, sexuality is not a choice.'"
I may be wrong but I don't think the poster is saying they're annoyed at pride events, just at them spilling over into events that are no more about that specific demographic than they are any other minority cause. If we're going this route then surely we should include every other (specifically) non-rugby related cause too? People suffer abuse for any number of things such as race, body type, religious beliefs, sex, education levels, disabilities both mental and physical, social standing, poverty even things like baldness or other physical attributes, none of which are choices. I believe the point being made is why sexual orientation in particular?
As I say, I may be wrong but that's the way I read it. |
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"I may be wrong but I don't think the poster is saying they're annoyed at pride events, just at them spilling over into events that are no more about that specific demographic than they are any other minority cause. If we're going this route then surely we should include every other (specifically) non-rugby related cause too? People suffer abuse for any number of things such as race, body type, religious beliefs, sex, education levels, disabilities both mental and physical, social standing, poverty even things like baldness or other physical attributes, none of which are choices. I believe the point being made is why sexual orientation in particular?
As I say, I may be wrong but that's the way I read it.'"
Spot on. |
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| Quote ="post"Spot on.'"
I just knew you would reply to this post but fail to reply to any of the others that condemn homophobia. You are part of the problem, the sad thing is that you don’t understand that. |
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"I may be wrong but I don't think the poster is saying they're annoyed at pride events, just at them spilling over into events that are no more about that specific demographic than they are any other minority cause. If we're going this route then surely we should include every other (specifically) non-rugby related cause too? People suffer abuse for any number of things such as race, body type, religious beliefs, sex, education levels, disabilities both mental and physical, social standing, poverty even things like baldness or other physical attributes, none of which are choices. I believe the point being made is why sexual orientation in particular?
As I say, I may be wrong but that's the way I read it.'"
Spot on. Are we going to have an anti fat shaming day? What about a vegan day too? Absolute load of rubbish.
If the league wanted to wear rainbow laces like the premier league do then that’s fine but I’m not having a float full of fat blokes wearing hot pants, angel wings, cowboy hats and handle bar tashes blowing bubbles at a load of very confused kids who just want to watch rugby wondering what the frig pride is. |
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| Quote ="hatty"I just knew you would reply to this post but fail to reply to any of the others that condemn homophobia. You are part of the problem, the sad thing is that you don’t understand that.'"
Just because I’m not ‘For’ something, doesn’t mean I’m against it.
My brothers gay, I spent all my life sticking up for him and getting into fights we’ll into my 20s because of people picking on him for that reason, so don’t even go there.
It’s identity politics that should be kept well away from our club just like sectarianism, religion, leave or remain, race etc. |
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| Quote ="post"I’m not having a float full of fat blokes wearing hot pants, angel wings, cowboy hats and handle bar tashes blowing bubbles at a load of very confused kids who just want to watch rugby wondering what the frig pride is.'"
I heard they are renaming the south stand bar for the occasion too to the Blue Oyster Bar |
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| Quote ="Shifty Cat"Spot on. If you have no friends or work colleagues to talk to and learn more about how common this crap goes on, then just watching the news or better still do a google search about the subject. Fact's are attacks on LGBT people surged almost 80% in the UK over the last four years, that was up to end 2017.
Makes it even more concerning when you read that four in five LGBT people (81 per cent) who experienced a hate crime or incident didn't even report it to the police.
[urlhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gay-lgbt-hate-crimes-stats-rise-four-year-physical-verbal-homophobic-abuse-community-a7933126.html[/url
[urlhttps://www.stonewall.org.uk/lgbt-britain-hate-crime-and-discrimination[/url'"
Have you considered that a reason for a surge of 80% might be as a result of LGBT putting gays and lesbians more and more in the limelight with Pride events and parades which only antagonise some members of the public and lead to more abuse and physical attacks on them.
A couple of gays I know think so and will not participate in the events and parades as in their opinion, it is publicity which is doing as much harm as good for their sexiality. |
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| Quote ="Ruddy Duck"Have you considered that a reason for a surge of 80% might be as a result of LGBT putting gays and lesbians more and more in the limelight with Pride events and parades which only antagonise some members of the public and lead to more abuse and physical attacks on them.
A couple of gays I know think so and will not participate in the events and parades as in their opinion, it is publicity which is doing as much harm as good for their sexiality.'"
I see some truth in this, I’ve never been bothered about any of it all but the way the LGBTQ brigade are trying to get into everything and take over everything gets me. They tried with the LGBTQ poppies but were rightly told in no uncertain terms to not go there. |
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"I may be wrong but I don't think the poster is saying they're annoyed at pride events, just at them spilling over into events that are no more about that specific demographic than they are any other minority cause. If we're going this route then surely we should include every other (specifically) non-rugby related cause too? People suffer abuse for any number of things such as race, body type, religious beliefs, sex, education levels, disabilities both mental and physical, social standing, poverty even things like baldness or other physical attributes, none of which are choices. I believe the point being made is why sexual orientation in particular?
As I say, I may be wrong but that's the way I read it.'"
Why sexual orientation in particular? Probably because, of those things you mentioned, none of the abuse is anywhere near that towards LGBT people and to people of different races, which has been helped on by centuries of dehumanisation. The others, either have causes or don't actually attract abuse in the way you think they do beyond the school playground.
Why is promoting acceptance shoving something in our faces, but having a military round is absolutely fine and not shoving jingoism in our faces?
This isn't particularly aimed at you, but I will repeat; although I don't suspect any of you to be truly homophobic the attitude of effectively, be gay somewhere else away from me, only contributes and allows homophobia to grow rather than shrink. |
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| Quote ="post"Just because I’m not ‘For’ something, doesn’t mean I’m against it.
My brothers gay, I spent all my life sticking up for him and getting into fights we’ll into my 20s because of people picking on him for that reason, so don’t even go there.
It’s identity politics that should be kept well away from our club just like sectarianism, religion, leave or remain, race etc.'"
bingo |
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| Quote ="secondstanza"Why sexual orientation in particular? Probably because, of those things you mentioned, none of the abuse is anywhere near that towards LGBT people and to people of different races, which has been helped on by centuries of dehumanisation. The others, either have causes or don't actually attract abuse in the way you think they do beyond the school playground.
Why is promoting acceptance shoving something in our faces, but having a military round is absolutely fine and not shoving jingoism in our faces?
This isn't particularly aimed at you, but I will repeat; although I don't suspect any of you to be truly homophobic the attitude of effectively, be gay somewhere else away from me, only contributes and allows homophobia to grow rather than shrink.'"
I think your mistaken, people arent saying be gay just not near me, people are getting annoyed with it being thrust in their faces, I dont want to explain to my 9 year old about it as at 9 he has no sexual orientation as hes 9 and just wants to play with toys and his friends. I support the community as I have gay friends that are gay, (for me not all) I think there is a time and place for it...the parade/celebration I mean |
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| Quote ="Ruddy Duck"Have you considered that a reason for a surge of 80% might be as a result of LGBT putting gays and lesbians more and more in the limelight with Pride events and parades which only antagonise some members of the public and lead to more abuse and physical attacks on them.
A couple of gays I know think so and will not participate in the events and parades as in their opinion, it is publicity which is doing as much harm as good for their sexiality.'"
Poor logic.
You're saying that people with outdated and hateful views, willing to commit actual crimes in the name of that hate, are the social victims in all this? That those people who have had to grow-up in fear of what these people do everyday should have to sink into obscurity so as not to offend the timid sensibilities of bigots?
Unbelievable. |
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| Quote ="Pieman"I think your mistaken, people arent saying be gay just not near me, people are getting annoyed with it being thrust in their faces, I dont want to explain to my 9 year old about it as at 9 he has no sexual orientation as hes 9 and just wants to play with toys and his friends. I support the community as I have gay friends that are gay, (for me not all) I think there is a time and place for it...the parade/celebration I mean'"
This. The most important part of it all is it’s being pushed onto children. Like you say, they’ve no idea what any of it means, they just want to play with their toys, computer games and play rugby.
And as it’s shown the issue is divisive, some are for it, some against it and it’s not up to the club to start fixing social ills, that’s for the politicians to sort out.
If LGBTQ just want acceptance then stop making a big song and dance about it, attention seeking and taking over other events because that’s turning people against you. |
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| Player Coach | 310 | No
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| Jul 2010 | 15 years | |
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| May 2021 | Sep 2020 | LINK |
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| Quote ="post"This. The most important part of it all is it’s being pushed onto children. Like you say, they’ve no idea what any of it means, they just want to play with their toys, computer games and play rugby.
And as it’s shown the issue is divisive, some are for it, some against it and it’s not up to the club to start fixing social ills, that’s for the politicians to sort out.
If LGBTQ just want acceptance then stop making a big song and dance about it, attention seeking and taking over other events because that’s turning people against you.'"
Never understand the "what do i tell my kids" argument. What do you tell them on valentines day? St Patricks day? any other day? "that person is dressed that way because xyz".
Its not exactly going to be Rocky Horror though is it? We are talking flags and rainbows at most. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 5193 | No
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| Jan 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Aug 2024 | Mar 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Angelus"Never understand the "what do i tell my kids" argument. What do you tell them on valentines day? St Patricks day? any other day? "that person is dressed that way because xyz".
Its not exactly going to be Rocky Horror though is it? We are talking flags and rainbows at most.'"
Do the club promote Valentine’s Day and Paddy’s day like they are this one? You say you’re only bringing flags and rainbows? The only colours should be cherry and white and the only flags Wigan flags. Whatever you do in the bedroom keep it in the bedroom and stop forcing it onto other peoples especially when there’s kids involved. You say it’s only a flag, is the thin end of the wedge. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 310 | No
Team
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| Jul 2010 | 15 years | |
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| May 2021 | Sep 2020 | LINK |
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| Quote ="post"Do the club promote Valentine’s Day and Paddy’s day like they are this one? You say you’re only bringing flags and rainbows? The only colours should be cherry and white and the only flags Wigan flags. Whatever you do in the bedroom keep it in the bedroom and stop forcing it onto other peoples especially when there’s kids involved. You say it’s only a flag, is the thin end of the wedge.'"
If the matches fall on those days then yes, they do.
I'm not bringing anything, i just couldnt care less if anyone else does. as for "what goes on in the bedroom", if you have to put it that way, primary schools are taught basic sex ed, so they already know what goes on there. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 5193 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2006 | 19 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Aug 2024 | Mar 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Angelus"If the matches fall on those days then yes, they do.
I'm not bringing anything, i just couldnt care less if anyone else does. as for "what goes on in the bedroom", if you have to put it that way, primary schools are taught basic sex ed, so they already know what goes on there.'"
Primary school children are taught about reproduction and biology, normal stuff. It’s not up to the club to start teaching and preaching about what’s right and wrong and what we should think. They need to just get on with being a rugby club.
They say it’s about inclusion and tolerance, so then go and announce it on the day when Folou would be playing, not very inclusive and tolerant of Folous beliefs is it? |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 310 | No
Team
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jul 2010 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| May 2021 | Sep 2020 | LINK |
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| Quote ="post"Primary school children are taught about reproduction and biology, normal stuff. It’s not up to the club to start teaching and preaching about what’s right and wrong and what we should think. They need to just get on with being a rugby club.
They say it’s about inclusion and tolerance, so then go and announce it on the day when Folou would be playing, not very inclusive and tolerant of Folous beliefs is it?'"
The club arent teaching and preaching right and wrong, or what you should think. Anyone would think they arent letting you in if you arent gay or cross dressing. It's just a day to celebrate people being people.
Folau has said he has no issue with gay people so he should be ok with it. And if he was that bothered about his religious beliefes he wouldnt be playing on a Sunday, or he would be put to death. |
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