Dark mild is ok but prefer Hydes bitter these days.
Actually I'm quite calm about the club at the moment in that I know we are poor therefore don't expect anything this season.
I'm just passionate and sick to the back teeth of full time pros being part time wrestlers and body builders. It's a very simple game being made complicated by simple men with too much time on their hands but can't make time for basic skills to be practicised on a regular and consistent basis.
How many one on one sessions has SW done in his career to help develop a player? Probable answer is none. How many wrestling sessions does he attend? Probable answer is that he organises most of them.
Just tired of rhetoric on toughness, middles, edges, d and how often we play dumb. Sick of pathetic communications from the club at a time when expectations of good and timely communications are a given in society as a whole.
I know I rant but it's in despair that I can see the whole charade of Uncle Mo all over again where ostriches rule the roost in a desert of of mediocrety.

Watch the NRL and take an interest in some sides there, Itchy. There's some great footy being played out there. I know it's not the same as watching your team (less painful for a start!

) but...

Warrington led by Chris Sandow

The whole sport in the UK is in decline, not just Wigan. I'm generally in agreement with you and have posted many times along similar lines (centres doing a props job, etc). Neither am I an out and out SW fan but I am certain we will play with more flair when our troops return from injury. However, the fare on offer will be thin gruel compared to the NRL.
Re MM he plays 50 odd minutes not 40 and you can't call SOL a prop and still insist Williams is a 7 IMO. Finally, where's that good chippy you mentioned because they too are in sad decline IMO

Can't remember the last Aussie game that I watched. Must have been years ago when they were on Sky.
I've only seen short highlights of Widnes prior to Thursday but they try to play some decent rugby. A bit short on quality forwards but they currently have a good work ethic which will probably not be enough against the wire who will walk the LLS this season.

I think the mistake I made between losers at Cheltenham was to watch highlights of the 2010 to 2012 seasons when we played some decent stuff.




I'll get over it. I think for some fans the penny hasn't dropped yet on how poor we actually are. Anyone who lists missing Isa as one of reasons for our recent displays as some do have accepted mediocrity knowingly or subconsciously not sure which.

SW who I actually like and nothing like what opposing fans think he is has to make changes but I'm sure that he actually can or will. If he doesn't then IL will.
I would be very surprised if IL isn't already looking for a replacement. Crowds will decline very rapidly with the type of Rubgy being served up. I expect 10k for the HKR on Monday

Smith apologists need to watch Sandow's performance against Cas last night. Incredible. Now that's a #7.

The problem with Smith is because his skill set is so limited, it looks so much worse on the field when he has a bad game. Other halfbacks might have games where their basic skills let them down but might be able to cover it up with one moment of brilliance - match winning pass or run for example.

It's in Newtown around the corner from the Rolling Pin on Ormskirk Road

Itchy> This game seems to be youtube already. Really good performances at 1, 6, and 7. Well worth a look. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Purg4HR94 I reckon all the NRL games plus international and SoO on my laptop for eleven quid a month, or whatever it is, is a bargain, especially compared to the drivel you have to listen to on Sky. Although don't get me wrong, the Aussies have their share of dull clunkers just like we do. But sometimes... I was going to ask about the chippy too!

Itchy> This game seems to be youtube already. Really good performances at 1, 6, and 7. Well worth a look. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Purg4HR94 I reckon all the NRL games plus international and SoO on my laptop for eleven quid a month, or whatever it is, is a bargain, especially compared to the drivel you have to listen to on Sky. Although don't get me wrong, the Aussies have their share of dull clunkers just like we do. But sometimes... I was going to ask about the chippy too!

There's two ways to ask this question.

1. Is he good enough?
2. Is he the right player for Wigan?

I'd sooner answer number 2. Answer is, no I don't think he is, but that's not his fault. Wane and IL haven't replaced Green with a like for like. Williams is good, but he's no Blake Green or Brett Finch. Smith needs a player of that caliber to allow him do what he does well. Now he doesn't have that he's exposed for what he is, limited and good for certain things.

Smith can get by with talent around him, he can do the basics very well, and that works in the right environment, remove the talent from around him and rely on him to create and it's game over.

Is he even good at the basics?

For about 18 months now his passing has been poor, he drops easy catches, tackling is average and his kicking from hands is nothing short of a disgrace. Not to mention his lack of pace, footwork and inability to put a player through a gap. Goal kicking has improved a bit I guess.

Have to agree with that. Despite all the comments about the low standard in SL, the sad fact is, *most* SL sides seem to have a better 7 than Smith.

I agree. It surely must reveal something when his best two performances since signing for us have been played in poor weather conditions.

Hull FC - Challenge Cup Final (Lance Todd)
Third Test versus NZ last year. (MOM)

Now for these awards did he score spectacular tries? No
Did he put players into space to score? No

Instead he calmed things down, took control of ball distribution (nothing fancy like) and his place kicking suffocated the opposition to death...that was about it.

I will admit that his two drop goals in the final 5 minutes against Hull was outstanding, but we were well in a position to win that game with ease and let Hull back in.

Quote ="moto748"Itchy> This game seems to be youtube already. Really good performances at 1, 6, and 7. Well worth a look. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Purg4HR94 I reckon all the NRL games plus international and SoO on my laptop for eleven quid a month, or whatever it is, is a bargain, especially compared to the drivel you have to listen to on Sky. Although don't get me wrong, the Aussies have their share of dull clunkers just like we do. But sometimes... I was going to ask about the chippy too! '" Only watched the first half so far but very enjoyable. The Wests half backs look superior so far but a good fight back from Manley. Cheers for the link its greatly appreciated. When you travel on a Friday I think the chippy shuts around 6ish which maybe too early for you with your long journey but worth the effort if you can make it. I think the street is Grosvenor Street (sp?)

Quote ="moto748"Itchy> This game seems to be youtube already. Really good performances at 1, 6, and 7. Well worth a look. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Purg4HR94 I reckon all the NRL games plus international and SoO on my laptop for eleven quid a month, or whatever it is, is a bargain, especially compared to the drivel you have to listen to on Sky. Although don't get me wrong, the Aussies have their share of dull clunkers just like we do. But sometimes... I was going to ask about the chippy too! '" Only watched the first half so far but very enjoyable. The Wests half backs look superior so far but a good fight back from Manley. Cheers for the link its greatly appreciated. When you travel on a Friday I think the chippy shuts around 6ish which maybe too early for you with your long journey but worth the effort if you can make it. I think the street is Grosvenor Street (sp?)

The good stuff continues in the second half, Itchy. Tedesco is a bit special.

Yeah, 6 might be a bit early on a 'normal' Friday, but Good Friday with the afternoon KO means an early start. I took my bike to be serviced this morning, and I was assured I'd get it back by Wednesday. Else it'll be the train, but either way I'd prefer to have time to drop by bags and stuff off at the hotel in Wigan before heading to Saints.

On that, I thought at the time of the WCC games that one of the things England fans always used to console themselves with years ago was the idea that at least we played 'proper' rugby, with forwards and backs all having their own roles, whereas the NRL produced large powerful 'everymen', combined second rower and centre, the likes of Matt Gilett say, or Joel Thompson. But the Cowboys beat Leeds by their magnificent forwards providing the platform for JT to his stuff, and the other two games went likewise. And other currently successful teams in the NRL like the Tigers are doing likewise. The point, of course, is to have the halves and outside backs with the wit and skill to take advantage of that platform.

Tedesco has had appalling luck with serious injuries, he's missed whole seasons before I think, leading to fears he'd lose his electrifying pace, but fortunately he still has it.

I think it's great that Wigan keep persevering with Smith.
He's rubbish!

Thought Sargo had his worst game for us.
And Smith...does he get a prize for every kick-in-play that goes straight down the throat of the oppo?

Sarginson is a real threat from full back but his game has been littered with errors in the two games to date. If he can get rid of them is say it looks to be his natural position.

I think it's more so we're getting over the advantage line straight away. If we pass it deep an energetic defence will turn that into lost yards pretty quick, then all the momentum goes to the defence and the rest of our set gets a lot harder.

If you lie flat it gives the defenders time to get in your face, it also leads to hurried passes which itself leads to the ball going to ground or worse still finishing behind the player the pass was intended for.
When you lie that bit deeper it gives you time to get up to speed and also puts the defenders in two minds, making them think are you going to put some one inside of you or give a short pass for someone to go through on the outside of you.

If you want an example of what I am saying watch the under 19s, in the match at the weekend a lot of the tries came from players cutting back against the grain.

Maybe the senior coaches should watch it to.

The U19's play to exactly the same structure as the 1st team. You most also realise that London aren't really a team to be bench-marked against at that level.